• Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

What is the most terrifying thing that taught you a lesson?

skyking1

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2020
Messages
7,465
Location
washington
4' everywhere. I will trim the ground down for a while if I'm able to get a trench in at less than 4 ft that way, but I won't bench it. A lot of people think bench is acceptable but the pressure is still there and unless you cut it way back things can fall off that higher bank and end up in the hole with the guys. I would much rather have them working at the bottom of a slope that they can walk up and down if I can't put in shoring practically.
 

Muffler Bearing

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2009
Messages
512
Location
Colorful Colorado
Occupation
Truck Mechanic
I'm glad most of these are decades old. Mine is from last month, it's a reminder that I'm always between the last close call and the next close call. I had seized steer cyl. pins on this skidder, After lancing the center out I wanted to press the pin from below, normally I'd grab a hydraulic bottle jack, instead I put a big air bottle jack under that pin. I aired it up and gave the pin one tap with a sledge.....it turns out that air can be compressed! I looked up and saw the pin higher than the roof!
Quite happy I didn't catch it with my face.IMG_2724.JPG IMG_2728.jpgHere's my calculated trajectory of the pin
 

skyking1

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2020
Messages
7,465
Location
washington
There is no test, there is no "
that is good enough ". If you want to classify soils you have to be an engineer for that purpose. Best practices to treat all soils as class c, and act accordingly.
Undisturbed soils will stand up like a slot cut in wood, if there's any binder in it. It can also collapse and those kinds of ditches lull people into a false sense of security. The other thing that happens is you'll be digging parallel to another trench that was dug many years ago, and let's say your four feet down and 2 ft over from that trench, that entire loaf of dirt between you and that other trench can fall in in one piece. All you have to do is be buried up to your belt to die. The pressure from the soil is so tremendous, that it will restrict your ability to breathe even down there that low on your body.
 

Welder Dave

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
12,260
Location
Canada
Thank you for that shyking1. The utility could have been reported for unsafe work practices or trench practices. It looked more than 4' deep to me but maybe was close.
 

skyking1

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2020
Messages
7,465
Location
washington
I had one job maybe 12 years ago with this company that I'm back with and the dirt guys kept going by and giving me the stink eye. I had measured the trench before proceeding to have the plumber put the pipe in it was right there at 4 ft. The problem was I had this little Guatemalan Indio plumber who was probably 5' 0 in tall. I went over to the dirt guys on the next pass and said look guys this isn't an illegal trench it's an illegal plumber:)
 

Welder Dave

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
12,260
Location
Canada
Better than the overweight plumber who can't pull his pants up high enough. There should be a law about how much crack can be exposed!
 

AzIron

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2016
Messages
1,541
Location
Az
Been in 2 cave ins one was in a box the other was by myself 9 feet deep what's worse was I new I was questionable on that and the backfill to the sewer tap stuffed off into my ditch as I was uncovering the seert tap with a shovel I saw it coming and got out of the way

A 3 foot deep ditch broke a plumbers leg when I fell in and if your in a violent cave in to a little past waste deep it can push your guts out your mouth if you get into to your waste and spend more than a few minutes that way the blood poisoning from loss of circulation will usually give the individual a heart attack

There is no good answer with excavations at 5 foot you need shoring or sloping I would say benching is acceptable if you dimension your bench to angle of repose for the soil classification it's faster and easier than sloping but benches should be engineered per soil conditions the only thing osha will accept as standard practice is a slope no engineering required unless you exceed 20ft deep
 

Tugger2

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2018
Messages
1,366
Location
British Columbia
My youngest son got one of his first jobs with a plumbing outfit that had thier own mini exc. They were your typical lowbudget outfit that paid low and cut corners. Ever time i talked to my son it was like drilling in safety in trenches, dont go in it if its an 1" over 4' or make them slope it 1 to 1 . Thankfully he didnt work foer them too long.
 

aighead

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2019
Messages
2,541
Location
Dayton, OH
All this ditch talk and different depths makes me feel pretty fortunate for my buddy and the ditch we dug at his house. Pictures are shared somewhere here on HEF, but it was definitely deeper than 4'. I never really knew the dangers of working in trenches until pretty recently and it seems pretty sketchy.

Thanks y'all.
 

redneckracin

Senior Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Messages
574
Location
Western PA
Occupation
Civil Engineer
If anyone is interested, OSHA has a training class on trench safety. I believe it is sub-part P. Probably can browse through it somewhere on the net.
 

skyking1

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2020
Messages
7,465
Location
washington
@aighead you are welcome with great power comes great responsibility. It isn't just how much the machine can do it's the situation you can leave. In safety we talk about stored energy and the bank has a lot of stored energy!
Just a couple years ago I called the county and OSHA about a job I went by where are the guys were down in a cut maybe 8 ft wide and 15-20 ft deep in these big Stones we call spanaway spuds around here. What they were doing was regrading existing utilities so that then they could come back and lower a road. It would have been no thing to do a scraper show and peel the hill down and do it right. Instead these guys are down there where a 50 lb Rock could pop out of the bank and end their life let alone a real cave in.
It took too long but they finally shut the job down and figure out a way to make it safe. I frankly don't care if you're going to lose your ass on the bid if you don't care about your guys you should go out of business.
 

suladas

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
1,731
Location
Canada
Had a close call with a cave in on one of my first basements many years ago. Two service trenches, about 10' apart. Dug one, backfilled it, dug other and as I started to backfill a massive part of the bank between the two let go, it was like 9' high bank, if someone was in the trench they would have been dead absolutely no question about it, and I was in there only maybe 45 minutes prior. Was a big wake up a call, and good lesson about banks that I thankfully didn't learn the hard way. 5' is legal here, over the years i've got where I know when i'm digging if the dirt is stable and what i'm comfortable going in. For virtually all my sewer and water trenches I keep the 5' bucket on to make it safer, and bench down the sides. Problem is the bank against the city property is always going to be over 5' and you can't dig it to slope or bench it back, had some as deep as 13'. Did a repair a few weeks ago 13' down no possible room to bench or slope so rented a trench box, they sure are handy. It's amazing how dumb some people are though, the customer figured I was going to do the repair without a trench box, a hole 13' down only 4'x6' in size, ya let's just dig my own grave.....

A temp worker got buried and died here a few years ago, contractor went to jail I believe, and even the builder got it really bad. One "new Canadian" company I watched doing services here they had a 2' wide trench it was 12' down easy, no slope or benching and they were driving the 200 hoe back and forth at the top while guys were in the trench. Baffled they haven't killed someone yet.
 

skyking1

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2020
Messages
7,465
Location
washington
speed shoring is the bomb for those jobs. You have to know how to use it safely, but it can be made to work where nothing else will.
 

suladas

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
1,731
Location
Canada
speed shoring is the bomb for those jobs. You have to know how to use it safely, but it can be made to work where nothing else will.

It was build a box shoring, somewhat time consuming to assemble but works awesome.
 

skyking1

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2020
Messages
7,465
Location
washington
Build-a-box here, used it for this 23000 pound grease interceptor base set.
20201216-103535.jpg
 

JLarson

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2020
Messages
656
Location
AZ
Occupation
Owner- civil and heavy repair/fab company
Seems like it happens to a plumber or two every year here on a new housing development.

Personally I've had a few close calls rigging plate steel, clamps, magnets, most of the time if we're close to it we're just gonna weld on a temp lifting point.
 

AllDodge

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
2,290
Location
Kentucky
Some good reading here
Two years ago, I'm going to load the backhoe on the trailer like so many other times. The difference is the batteries are weak in the dump truck so once started I didn't want to shut it off. The dump is a single axle with juice breaks, and parking break is on the drive shaft. It works just not great.

Place the truck/trailer "mostly level" and set the break. The ramps on the rear are on the ground so that should help hold it "right". Up I go and just as it just gets up the weight moves forward enough to lift the ramps just enough. The whole rig starts to roll backwards. I drop the bucket, set the break and jump off and get in the truck to stop it.

Weak bats or no weak bats, the truck is shut off and in gear
 

colson04

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2016
Messages
2,057
Location
Delton, Michigan
Some good reading here
Two years ago, I'm going to load the backhoe on the trailer like so many other times. The difference is the batteries are weak in the dump truck so once started I didn't want to shut it off. The dump is a single axle with juice breaks, and parking break is on the drive shaft. It works just not great.

Place the truck/trailer "mostly level" and set the break. The ramps on the rear are on the ground so that should help hold it "right". Up I go and just as it just gets up the weight moves forward enough to lift the ramps just enough. The whole rig starts to roll backwards. I drop the bucket, set the break and jump off and get in the truck to stop it.

Weak bats or no weak bats, the truck is shut off and in gear


Oofta. Could have been a real bad deal
 

John C.

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
12,865
Location
Northwest
Occupation
Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
The drive line brake reminds me of a close encounter of the dangerous kind.

It was a Saturday and I was coming home from a job way up in the Snoqualmie tree farm. It was an excavator that got a rebuilt pump that had to be adjusted properly. The machine was up about six miles basically on a cat trail. First gear the last three miles, steep and on shale type rock that was sharp. The job was done and I had got back down to I90 and was heading west up the hill out of North Bend when the left rear inside dual blew out. Pulled over, set the parking brake and had the tranny in first gear when I looked underneath the truck. The spring clip bolt that holds the spring leaves in line had lost the nut and worked its way out into the side wall of the tire and wore through it. At any rate I proceeded to put the bottle jack under the axle and started the process of lifting the tires up for changing when the truck rolled off the jack. It hadn't occurred to me that a drive line brake is useless when one tire is lifted off the ground. Two things were in my favor. The first is that the tranny was in gear. The second is that I was in front of the tires on the up hill side. I guess I was too stupid to realize that I was lucky until a little while later.

I brought the incident up at the next safety meeting and all of the rest of the field guys did the oh split kind of reaction. The service manager put wheel chocks in all the service trucks after that.
 
Top