140M steering Fault

kxmulisha · Apr 12, 2021

could anyone please help with this issue. steering fault E1375 is active, the steering is still working.
these codes are also logged but are in active:
590-9
597-14
2202-12
E192
checked for any obvious wiring damaged & plug connectors all seem fine. could someone point me in the right direction or share any experience with similar problem.
Machine: CAT0410MAB9D01480
thanks

Nige · Apr 12, 2021

Here's your Logged Codes/Events..........
590-9 - Dodgy communications between Power Train ECM & Engine ECM over the Datalink.
597-14 - Implement Hydraulic Pump. Pressure above 7500kPa (1000psi) when pump is in standby mode. (This Diagnostic is related to Secondary Steering system)
2202-12 - Steering valve control module error signal.
E192 - Steering System Malfunction

Attached Troubleshooting procedure for E1375, but it wouldn't surpise me at all if you have a wiring fault that is causing unwanted activation of the Secondary Steering system. It's a common problem on all M-Series I've ever been associated with. Has the grader burned out the motor on the Secondary Steering pump recently.?

kxmulisha · Apr 12, 2021

hi nige, thanks for your response. ill try the troubleshooting procedure. i dont have much history on the machine but no i dont believe its recently burnt out a secondary steering motor.
where are the steering spools located and how can they be tested?

Nige · Apr 12, 2021

The steering valve is located on top of the front frame under the “bodywork” just forward of the moldboard lift cylinders. PITA to get at. The “actuator” mentioned in the troubleshooting procedure is a big black electro-hydraulic valve mounted right on top of the steering valve.

kxmulisha · Apr 13, 2021

so i run through the trouble shooting, the resistor its self tested fine (515 ohms) but when i tested pins 1 & 5 i got 2.54v & pin 5 & 6 2.56v. 0.99v difference. so based on the check list its pointing towards the resistor being bad? or the steering actuator its self?
i did leave the the actuator unplugged and the steering still worked, so the secondary is working.
is there anything else i can do? ive odder the resistor but the actuator is worth over $1000 so id want to be sure its the actuator before i replace it.

Nige · Apr 13, 2021

The actuator Part Number has been changed a couple of times over the years, the latest iteration is "Generation 7". The Part Number progression goes 308-0938 ->365-5980 ->394-8186 ->471-7935 ->559-3552. Based on personal experience over the years I wouldn't have too much faith in any Part Number earlier than 394-8186.

Does the installed actuator have a Part Number tag on it.? There was a Service Letter in late 2012 out on the earliest Part Number 308-0938 to replace it with 365-5980. All 308-0938 actuators manufactured before 2010 (your grader is 2008) should be considered suspect. There was also a Service Letter in Q4 2014 to replace 365-5980 with 394-8186.

Nige · Apr 13, 2021

Sorry, forgot to attach this before. The Service Mag regarding the latest P/N update of steering valve actuator.

kxmulisha · Apr 15, 2021

Thanks Nige for your help and info you put up, problem solved. i ended up replacing the actuator and that fixed it.
for anyone replacing 1 of these actuators, make sure the the little resolver that will most likely be stuck in the old actuator when you remove it, is then removed and installed into the new actuator. key indicator if you miss this is slow or no steering to the left.

Nige · Apr 15, 2021

Good to hear that you got it fixed. I agree that it's a leap of faith to place an order for a $1,000 part that you're not sure is going to fix the problem or not.

Out of interest what Part Number of actuator did you remove from the machine.?

kxmulisha · Apr 15, 2021

There was no number on it that related to the ones you had mentioned but it did have engraved into it 11020776 4110E045794. I did go back to the machine armed with the new actuator and the resistor. I did try the new resistor first as per the troubleshooting process – obviously didn’t work and I already had a feeling it wouldn’t as my initial test came back with 515 ohms (in spec). I could tell straight away comparing the new actuator I had to the old one there was significant difference between them, the new one is also more compact. I did leave the new resistor in place as I felt it really should be replaced anyway with the new actuator. New actuator part no: 559-3552 ($1380), resistor part no: 240-7193 ($120) that’s kangaroo dollars I might add….

Nige · Apr 15, 2021

kxmulisha said:
I could tell straight away comparing the new actuator I had to the old one there was significant difference between them, the new one is also more compact. I did leave the new resistor in place as I felt it really should be replaced anyway with the new actuator. New actuator part no: 559-3552 ($1380), resistor part no: 240-7193 ($120) that’s kangaroo dollars I might add….

Gorra couple of photos.? I can probably identify it from that. Off the top of my head I can't remember who makes those actuators for Cat, it's a major hydraulic valve company that I do know. I do recall many moons ago calling their Tech Support line when we had 2 graders down and the nearest actuator was something like a month away (no stock due to so many failures out in the field - this was in the 2009-10 time frame) and they told me that they could only supply to Cat. In fact it's not the actuator per se they couldn't sell, it's the software loaded into it in order to make it perform the desired function that makes it proprietary to Cat.

Even in kangaroo dollars the price is still sharp intake of breath time.
I recall replacing one on a 16M a couple of years ago but failures haven't been so noticeable with the newer Part Numbers since maybe 2015 onwards.

Nige · Apr 15, 2021

Been looking in my old emails. The actuator is a Sauer Danfoss PVE. That's a stock photo, I'd still be interested to see what the one you removed looks like, especially the tag.

kxmulisha · Apr 15, 2021

kxmulisha · Apr 15, 2021

the new one was a Sauer Danfoss and looked similar to this but with i metal plate across the top and fins down each side.

Nige · Apr 15, 2021

From my photo files that looks like a 365-5980. So I'd say your 140M had the 2012 Priority (Mandatory Replacement) Service Letter applied to it and this one was installed at that time as a replacement.
The 2014 Service Letter was After Failure only and so if the previously-installed one didn't fail then that program would never have been applied. It's lasted pretty well in that case.

Nige · Apr 15, 2021

Did the O-Ring seals for underneath the aactuator (especially the weird square one) some with the new one or did you have to buy them separately.? They never used to but maybe now there is a completely new design of actuator things could have changed.

kxmulisha · Apr 15, 2021

new actuator comes with new o'rings. apparently cat does sell/list a gasket for it now according to the part interpreter i spoke to... i don't see how the gasket and recessed o'rings would work together or why they would try that. my guess is they list a part number and describe it as GASKET but its probably just a bag of replacement o'rings to suit.
I've circled the location of the "resolver" for anyone who is interested

Nige · Apr 15, 2021

Part Number 301-5167 (10A) is the seal kit. Includes five O-Rings plus your famous shuttle valve.

140M steering Fault

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