Rebuilt injection pump 580B wont start

ANGUS BEEF · Mar 21, 2021

Buddy that knows way more than i do came over to put rebuilt injection pump back on my 1975 Case 580B. Its a Roosamaster pump. Found top dead center on flywheel and pump was marked by shop that rebuilt it and was also lined up correctly. We had the thing on and off like 3 times now. It will not fire up. We are getting fuel out of every injector and we triple checked top dead center and pump marks. Everything is innorder as best we can tell and nothing. Were getting fuel, smoke out of the exhaust but she wont run. Any ideas?

MarshallPowerGen · Mar 21, 2021

What issues was it having that a rebuilt pump was installed? Were the injectors pop tested? Any difference with block heater or a hit of ether?

ANGUS BEEF · Mar 21, 2021

Wants to run on ether but wont. Injectors were not pop tested. I dont know what that means. The pump was leaking internally and externally very bad. Did not try block heater. Its been in my shop at 65 degreed for last two months.

Delmer · Mar 21, 2021

Did you remove the injectors and send them along with the pump? did the pump rebuilder ask about the injectors? Do you have the injectors out and spraying?

It's firing on ether, but won't start up? sounds like the timing is way off. How does it sound cranking? is it fast enough.

You said top dead center on the flywheel, how about the valves? or how did you check that the pump is not 180 off, or one revolution of the crankshaft?

MarshallPowerGen · Mar 21, 2021

So was running before rebuild, but leaking? Or was it having running issues as well attributed to the pump?

Pop test is checking that injectors "pop" at the correct pressure and checking spray pattern. If injectors are worn out and a new pump is installed, you can have a hard time starting or running since popping too early will affect your injection timing. How many hours on the machine?

ANGUS BEEF · Mar 21, 2021

Theres god only knows how many hours on machine. Ive owned it 21 years and the hour meter was not working when i bought it. It ran ok before but was smoking quite a bit. I did not send the injectors with the pump. The shop did not ask for them. We rried rotating the pump 180 degrees and it made no difference. Sounds like its turning over as fast as it always has but just will not fire. Can i just buy new injectors? Or do they have to be matched to the pump? Kinda lost here. Sorry for the lack of knowledge.

Delmer · Mar 21, 2021

Is the throttle held to fast? and the shut off is working? And you're getting air going through the muffler, like puffs of smoke, not just a little seeping out?

Plug it in and try again when it's warmed up, don't know what else to say without seeing it.

Yes you can just buy new injectors, and they're probably fairly cheap. If you knew you were getting good ones, then it would make sense to change them all at the same time as the rebuilt pump. Hard to know the new ones are good without getting them tested though.

ANGUS BEEF · Mar 22, 2021

What brand injectors do you recommend getting if i get some?

ANGUS BEEF · Mar 22, 2021

Also, one thing that may be of importance is that when they rebuilt my pump he said everything inside was in really good shape except for the governor mechanism was broken. He replaced it. I dont know if that would raise problems with the injectors now that its been replaced? Also whats the reason for plugging tank heater in? Just so everything is hot and spind easier? Could the crank sensor be an issue? Looks like just a bolt a d spring combo so i dont know what could fail. The friend installing my pump has done many pumps before. Im not saying hes and expert but he's way more knowledgeable than I am. We also had valve cover off to make sure valves were on compression stroke etc. Thank you for any and all responses.

alrman · Mar 22, 2021

The engine wasn't turned over with the injector pump not fitted to the timing cover ..... by any chance??

ANGUS BEEF · Mar 22, 2021

I dont believe so but i do know when he tore it apart multiple times yesterday that one of those times it did get turned over without putting the crankshaft sensor in. He realized somehow it was ledt on the bench. So i don't know if that would make a difference?

Delmer · Mar 22, 2021

What are you calling a "crankshaft sensor"? is that the part that goes in the flywheel to lock the timing?

Yes, the block heater is just to warm everything up so it starts easier. Better and safer than ether.

ANGUS BEEF · Mar 22, 2021

Its a bolt with a spring on it. Sits in the snout of pump shaft, forward of the timing gear. When u put the timing cover on i believe it gets depressed. Not sure what that piece does.

Tinkerer · Mar 22, 2021

Sensor ---This it ??
#8 ??

ANGUS BEEF · Mar 22, 2021

10 and 8 together. Its like a bolt with a spring. Yes

ANGUS BEEF · Mar 22, 2021

10 and 8 together. Its like a bolt with a spring. Yes

Eric a1cnc · Mar 22, 2021

I would recommend BRAND new Injectors from Stanadyne. I bought mine from a local injection shop for~$96 each. Case dealer wanted $220 EACH.... I went the cheap route (Less than $100 for 4 injectors) the first time BEFORE buying the Stanadyne injectors and even tested them before putting them in. They ran ~ 4-5 hours total before they acted up. When you see what the spray pattern of a new injector looks like compared to a dirty one it's amazing. The new ones pretty much put out a fog of fuel vs. a stream from a dirty injector.

Also you mentioned you turned the injection pump 180. You actually need to turn the ENGINE over not just turn the pump. Another thing that can make it hard to start is if you are setting the engine to TDC when you install the pump and line up the marks in the pump. This causes the timing to be late. You need to make sure to set the engine at the 8 degree before top dead center mark BEFORE putting the pump on with the lines in the pump aligned.

Eric a1cnc · Mar 22, 2021

The thing you are calling a crank sensor is just a spring loaded stub to keep the end of the pump shaft aligned and pressed back. I am assuming he took it apart to verify the alignment marks did line up.

ANGUS BEEF · Mar 22, 2021

How do you determine where 8 degrees before top dead center is?

Tinkerer · Mar 22, 2021

Rebuilt injection pump 580B wont start

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