How do you bind the really big stuff?

7AXLES · Apr 8, 2008

Wonder how some of you guys bind the big stuff(over 50,000)

How bout a Deere 450 excavator at 108,000? What grade chain/binder combination? How many chains do you use? Where do you attach on an excavator?

2004F550 · Apr 8, 2008

8 chains and binders on a 345, at least one being over the boom, We do an X pattern on the tracks front and rear, then chains to the tow points on the undercarriage, gets a little busy but its what the Popo want to see

Chaz Murray · Apr 9, 2008

5 axle loads we use 3/8 grade 80 chain and that is rated at 7050lbs each chain (off the top of my head...may be a little off) so a min of 6 chains for 50,000lbs and normaly on the 7 axle - 9 axle use 1/2 grade 80 with a rating up to 12,000lbs per chain (once again off the top of my head)...so use a min of 4 points and enough chains to = half the weight of the machine to the weight rating of the chain so a 180,000lb machine would get a min of 8 1/2" chains
Its kinda a pain in the ass tryin to find enough places to tie on to so alot of the time we will use a sling hook and just hook one end of the chain to the track or use the tie down points on the carbody if they are close by. and most of the time run out of places so a few get doubled up in the same place just to be able to make the CHP happy

9Axle · Apr 9, 2008

tie down

hi chaz it all depends on how far im going or if im going to cross scales.usually i do all 4 corners 2 in the center 1 over boom,all 1/2 inch grade 80.heres a pic of 385 tie down.but by the sound of it were going to have to put twice as many to make the big bad DOT cop hapy

a couple drivers got chain tickets at antalope scales last week.they got some new guy in there all by the book kind off guy

rofessor

Chaz Murray · Apr 10, 2008

9Axle said:
hi chaz it all depends on how far im going or if im going to cross scales.usually i do all 4 corners 2 in the center 1 over boom,all 1/2 inch grade 80.heres a pic of 385 tie down.but by the sound of it were going to have to put twice as many to make the big bad DOT cop hapy a couple drivers got chain tickets at antalope scales last week.they got some new guy in there all by the book kind off guy rofessor

we got pulled over a couple months ago with a D11 on and the CHP made our driver add about 8 chains more...then wrote us a ticket for crossing the double yellow line on a 2 lane country road because he was tryin to avoid hitting a tree branch and powerlines hangin over the road...I dont think the CHP has the authority yet to write tickets for chain requirements...only the DOT has the authority untill California adopts the federal rules...If I remember right that should be goin in to effect shortly

Willis Bushogin · Apr 10, 2008

securing heavy equipment

7AXLES said:
Wonder how some of you guys bind the big stuff(over 50,000)

How bout a Deere 450 excavator at 108,000? What grade chain/binder combination? How many chains do you use? Where do you attach on an excavator?

I think the DOT in our area (eastern NC) have gone crazy. I understand safety and stress this to my workers. Seems like you dont know about the new laws until, you or your friend gets stopped, we have moved our dozer a bunch of times in the last two years, now my friend got a ticket for not having a chain across the blade of the D5. He got a ticket about a year ago, no chain on the excavator bucket. If I understand correctly, if you have a bucket of any kind FEL on a backhoe, skidsteer, tractor, etc its got to have a chain across the bucket (they called it a shovel:Banghead) plus the four points chains. All this may be old news to some people, but I just heard about it.
I got stopped today, the officer pulled up beside me (I was driving my Ford dually, GAS) he said, I guess you are driving a gas hog, my answer yes sir, was I doing something wrong? he said I was going to check your fuel tank for dyed fuel, but I guess you have gas in your tank (remember that Bill Engall saying "Heres your Sign"):bash
Forgot to add, just got my seat belt hooked up in time, and I usually wear it.

7AXLES · Apr 11, 2008

You guys every use any of the SCC Quikbinders.....we just got some and I think they are the berries!!! You can spin(tang locked in the center position) the binder with both hands on the rubber grip and the ratchet folds down for easy storage...rated for WLL 12,000lbs.

LowBoy · Apr 12, 2008

7AXLES said:
You guys every use any of the SCC Quikbinders.....we just got some and I think they are the berries!!! You can spin(tang locked in the center position) the binder with both hands on the rubber grip and the ratchet folds down for easy storage...rated for WLL 12,000lbs.

Those binders are the cat's meow.

Normally, the regulations require equal or greater WLL of chains to weight of equipment being secured. For example, a 60,000 lb. excavator would need 4 half inch grade 70 (min.) chains and binders (watch those Chinese made ones for WLL,) in an X pattern. Hook to pad, I usually grabbed it at ran chain UNDERNEATH the pads, between tracks and frame, then to a D-Ring if possible. If not, then to a good angle to pull. Unfortunatley I've been told by more than one DOT officer that going to the side of the trailer beam instead of a D-ring will decrease the WLL they allow by 50%. I think it's nuts, I've pulled D-rings off before on big stuff, but you can't fight City Hall...
If chaining over top of a sprocket, I carried a couple of pieces of 1 1/2" axle stock about a foot long, set it into the sprocket cog and this kept the track from doing funny things when trying to ratchet it tight onto a sprocket. Especially on worn bottoms, they tend to not cooperate when trying to get them tight.
They say 60% of the chain/securement WLL should be to the rear, or end facing the rear at the boom end. Depending on the size of the bucket, etc. an extra chain over the stick and the bucket makes you look really good while crossing scales.
My theory has always been,take 10 extra minutes from your busy day, add a few more chains wherever they make sense, and I've actually gotten compliments from stone-faced DOT inspectors on my securement. If you have extra binders, I throw a binder alone from the track to the trailer beam to eliminate side to side movement.
Hauling a 60K lb. machine with 80K lbs. worth of securenemt really gives you peace of mind going down the road, and in addition makes it look like you know what you're doing to the Man with the Plan...:cool2
Just another opinion.

erthmover · Apr 12, 2008

I was on the FMCSA's website and was reading the securement rules and according to them the working load limit of the chain must be at least 1/2 the article it's securing. I always thought that the WLL had to be equal or great than the machine being secured. Is it true or do the chains only have to be at least half?

7AXLES · Apr 13, 2008

I just happen to be talking to a Illinois State Trooper yesterday and he told me the total WLL of the binders/chains must equal 1/2 the weight of the piece of equipment you are hauling....BUT after careful examination of the Federal DOT book, it says different from how I read it.

Check out 393.106 d-1....looks to me like they changed it and now you can only count HALF of the total WLL. That means on 5 chains/binders grade 70 the WLL total divided by 1/2 is only 28,250lbs, which means I would have to have 10 chains on a 450D.
Did I read this wrong or what!! Now you have to have a math degree to drive a truck.

§393.106 What are the general requirements for securing articles of cargo?

[Editor’s Note: The following paragraph is revised effective July 24, 2006.]

(a) Applicability. The rules in this section are applicable to the transportation of all types of articles of cargo, except commodities in bulk that lack structure or fixed shape (e.g., liquids, gases, grain, liquid concrete, sand, gravel, aggregates) and are transported in a tank, hopper, box or similar device that forms part of the structure of a commercial motor vehicle. The rules in this section apply to the cargo types covered by the commodity-specific rules of § 393.116 through § 393.136. The commodity-specific rules take precedence over the general requirements of this section when additional requirements are given for a commodity listed in those sections.

(b) General. Cargo must be firmly immobilized or secured on or within a vehicle by structures of adequate strength, dunnage or dunnage bags, shoring bars, tiedowns or a combination of these.

(c) Cargo placement and restraint. (1) Articles of cargo that are likely to roll must be restrained by chocks, wedges, a cradle or other equivalent means to prevent rolling. The means of preventing rolling must not be capable of becoming unintentionally unfastened or loose while the vehicle is in transit.

(c)(2) Articles or cargo placed beside each other and secured by transverse tiedowns must either:

(c)(2)(i) Be placed in direct contact with each other, or

(c)(2)(ii) Be prevented from shifting towards each other while in transit.

[Editor’s Note: Paragraph (d) and its subparagraphs are revised effective July 24, 2006.]

(d) Minimum strength of cargo securement devices and systems. The aggregate working load limit of any securement system used to secure an article or group of articles against movement must be at least one-half times the weight of the article or group of articles. The aggregate working load limit is the sum of:

(d)(1) One-half of the working load limit of each associated connector or attachment mechanism used to secure a part of the article of cargo to the vehicle; and

(d)(2) One-half of the working load limit for each end section of a tiedown that is attached to an anchor point.

[67 FR 61227, Sep. 27, 2002; 71 FR 35833, June 22, 2006]

LowBoy · Apr 13, 2008

7AXLES said:
I just happen to be talking to a Illinois State Trooper yesterday and he told me the total WLL of the binders/chains must equal 1/2 the weight of the piece of equipment you are hauling....BUT after careful examination of the Federal DOT book, it says different from how I read it.

Check out 393.106 d-1....looks to me like they changed it and now you can only count HALF of the total WLL. That means on 5 chains/binders grade 70 the WLL total divided by 1/2 is only 28,250lbs, which means I would have to have 10 chains on a 450D.
Did I read this wrong or what!! Now you have to have a math degree to drive a truck.

§393.106 What are the general requirements for securing articles of cargo?

[Editor’s Note: The following paragraph is revised effective July 24, 2006.]

(a) Applicability. The rules in this section are applicable to the transportation of all types of articles of cargo, except commodities in bulk that lack structure or fixed shape (e.g., liquids, gases, grain, liquid concrete, sand, gravel, aggregates) and are transported in a tank, hopper, box or similar device that forms part of the structure of a commercial motor vehicle. The rules in this section apply to the cargo types covered by the commodity-specific rules of § 393.116 through § 393.136. The commodity-specific rules take precedence over the general requirements of this section when additional requirements are given for a commodity listed in those sections.

(b) General. Cargo must be firmly immobilized or secured on or within a vehicle by structures of adequate strength, dunnage or dunnage bags, shoring bars, tiedowns or a combination of these.

(c) Cargo placement and restraint. (1) Articles of cargo that are likely to roll must be restrained by chocks, wedges, a cradle or other equivalent means to prevent rolling. The means of preventing rolling must not be capable of becoming unintentionally unfastened or loose while the vehicle is in transit.

(c)(2) Articles or cargo placed beside each other and secured by transverse tiedowns must either:

(c)(2)(i) Be placed in direct contact with each other, or

(c)(2)(ii) Be prevented from shifting towards each other while in transit.

[Editor’s Note: Paragraph (d) and its subparagraphs are revised effective July 24, 2006.]

(d) Minimum strength of cargo securement devices and systems. The aggregate working load limit of any securement system used to secure an article or group of articles against movement must be at least one-half times the weight of the article or group of articles. The aggregate working load limit is the sum of:

(d)(1) One-half of the working load limit of each associated connector or attachment mechanism used to secure a part of the article of cargo to the vehicle; and

(d)(2) One-half of the working load limit for each end section of a tiedown that is attached to an anchor point.

[67 FR 61227, Sep. 27, 2002; 71 FR 35833, June 22, 2006]

Based on "Boots in the Field" exposure to all this regulated nonsense...If you were to carry enough chains and binders to accomodate the law stating 50% (or half WWL,) you'd need an overweight permit just to haul the securement devices around.
Take Keen Transport in Carlisle, Pa. for example. They are in my opinion, the ones to use as an example for equipment hauling and securement around the greater northeast anyways. Observe the way any of those guys secure a 345 on a beam, and you'll see the "60% of securement" rule to the rear of the excavator, and equal to or greater ratio on the stick and buckets.
Ask 10 different DOT inspectors the same question, get 10 different ways to hear,"I'm not quite sure".
Again, using the proper common sense approach to securing anything, and throwing a couple of more "good luck chains" on in addition will always get you through any inspection, as log as the chains are tight, properly used, not chafing each other, and in good condition. If there's still a problem, it's going to be that the officer needs a promotion and is going to create a problem regardless of your efforts.:drinkup

tuney443 · Apr 13, 2008

Willis Bushogin said:
I think the DOT in our area (eastern NC) have gone crazy. I understand safety and stress this to my workers. Seems like you dont know about the new laws until, you or your friend gets stopped, we have moved our dozer a bunch of times in the last two years, now my friend got a ticket for not having a chain across the blade of the D5. He got a ticket about a year ago, no chain on the excavator bucket. If I understand correctly, if you have a bucket of any kind FEL on a backhoe, skidsteer, tractor, etc its got to have a chain across the bucket (they called it a shovel:Banghead) plus the four points chains. All this may be old news to some people, but I just heard about it.
I got stopped today, the officer pulled up beside me (I was driving my Ford dually, GAS) he said, I guess you are driving a gas hog, my answer yes sir, was I doing something wrong? he said I was going to check your fuel tank for dyed fuel, but I guess you have gas in your tank (remember that Bill Engall saying "Heres your Sign"):bash
Forgot to add, just got my seat belt hooked up in time, and I usually wear it.

It was explained to me a couple years ago from a NY DOT officer that if the rig weighs 6 ton or more,you have to secure each corner of the rig plus all it's attachments,implements,etc.So a TLB would get 6 binders,a dozer without a rear ripper--5, as examples.

Grader4me · May 29, 2008

7AXLES said:
I just happen to be talking to a Illinois State Trooper yesterday and he told me the total WLL of the binders/chains must equal 1/2 the weight of the piece of equipment you are hauling....BUT after careful examination of the Federal DOT book, it says different from how I read it

I think that the officer told you right. Lets break it down this way. The WLL of each tie down is it's weakest link so to speak. If you have a 3/8 grade 70 chain then the WLL limit is 6600 lbs. If the binder on that chain has a lower rating then thats the WLL of the tiedown. If you have a marked/stamped binder for the 3/8 chain then the WLL for that binder is 6600 lbs. So the total WLL for that tiedown is 6600 lbs as the chain and binder have the same rating. So lets do a little math..

Four tie downs with a WLL of 6600 lbs will equal 26,400 lbs. So your WLL has to be 1/2 of the total weight of your equipment/cargo. This would allow you to haul a piece of equipment that weights in the vicinity 52,800 lbs.

Now for the heavier equipment you have to increase your chain size or add more chains.

Chains and binders used for securing attachments such as a TLB boom does not count towards the WLL of the load.

If you use unmarked 3/8 chain then your WLL is greatly reduced. I'm not sure exactly how much as I would have to look at the chart.

I think that I have this pegged right.

JCoates · Aug 11, 2008

Well said LOWBOY, I have a 75 ton 5 axle beam trailer, and haul 345's Volvo 460's, John Deere 450's and Kobelco 480's all the time, Chaining and Securing something vary in opinion depending on state and hard on's for writing a ticket that day. I agree to an extent that more is better, I personally use the criss cross technique grade 100 1/2 inch chain and i personally like the 1/2 5/8 crosby binders, i've had great luck with this crosby stuff. Criss cross on four points chain and binder over the stick pulling down. I've never been stopped for not having enough chains and binders.

Just a little added info as well, if you have a machine that weighs in at 108,000 and tomorrow you go down the road and that machine decides it's a bad day for a ride down the road, there isn't a chain in the word thats gonna stop it from coming off that trailer. 6 chains 20 chains don't make a differnce!!! It is the right thing to do to look good though, that i'll agree on!!

JCoates A.K.A. "Chainman"

7AXLES · Aug 11, 2008

JC, just curious, on a criss cross, how long of a chain are you using?

JCoates · Aug 11, 2008

On a beam trailer i use 4 footers or 8 footers sometimes both with a binder in the middle, i have a Talbert 55SA also, it's a flat deck trailer, an i use 4 footers an or 12 footers sometimes both with the binder in the middle or i'll pull to the deck with a single 12 footer!!

JCoates A.K.A. "Chainman"

7AXLES · Aug 12, 2008

I imagine them 12 fter's are kinda heavy, aye? I'm using 6fters and they are heavy enough for me.
Just started pulling heavy loads recently, Trail King 53fter with a drop axle, KW with a drop axle. About the big as I can go is a Deere 450 with a stinger axle. Kinda fun cause I get to operate all the equipment.
Was a little different adjusting to the width on oversize loads(especially big bladed dozers) but now its not that big a deal. Theres a lot more to pulling super loads than I thought besides width and weight. Height comes into play. Took an excavator out the other day and they had the height on it(permit) as 11ft. and it was actually 12-6, they forgot about the coupler on the bucket, couldn't get the boom down as far as usual. Some of them wheel loaders get pretty tall too!
So far so good, blew a pancake today with a 330 on the back and locked the passenger side drive axle brake up...that was kinda wild. I like the challenge, pulling vans was getting boring.

JCoates · Aug 13, 2008

Absolutely, In Pa legal Height is 13'6" when permitting, anything over that goes for a bridge review, you can haul well over 14' in Pa on most interstates, Toll Roads are different even when it comes to width. So when we permit out here everything is 13'6" unless you know for sure your gonna be over that height in example like you said if you have a high wheel loader such as a Volvo L330 which was replaced with the new L350 or Kawasaki 115ZV

The Volvo stands 13'9" on the ground i usually figure in 4 inches of ground clearance using a beam trailer for this move which now gives you a overall height of 14'1" or 14'2" give or take, in most places in Pa that wouldn't be a problem moving even if you had to go around a few low clearances, the state will permit you the way you need to go.

The Kawasaki 115ZV is just at 13'6" and you could haul this on on a beam all day long at 14'0" or 14'1" no problem!!

Even the weights on these two pieces are no different than a Volvo 460 or Cat 345, they are a little bigger the Volvo L350 weighing in at 113,000lbs i would haul that on a 3+1 spreader trailer or 2+2 set up total of 8 axles, and the Kawasaki 115ZV only weight 103,000lbs, i would use the same axle set up for that one too .....

Glad you converted over to a Heavy Hauler, I love puttin a big one on!!

JCoates A.K.A. "Chainman"

7AXLES · Aug 13, 2008

This rascal wasn't real heavy but sure was wide! Deere 9630 for pulling scraper pans.
Missouri is pretty picky on width, had to have an escort which was fine with me, since you can't see around them tires anyway and I love taking 2 lanes when we get into the 4 and 5 lane interstates, ya pretty much got to with all the on ramps, people just don't pay attention!

RailKing · Jan 6, 2009

In my line of work, we load 90% of our equipment on railroad flat cars. Our equipment ranges from 6000 lbs. to 100,000 lbs. a piece. Our rules are grade 80 1/2 inch chain on everything. All chains must be arranged in a trapazoid pattern and booms must be securely chained to the car floor. Any loose chain also has to be tie wired to the binder and the binder handle must be wired down. On our largest piece of equipment, we have to use 24 chains and 4 wheel chocks. Kind of a pain...

How do you bind the really big stuff?

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