How bad is it.

Zac chandler · Jan 27, 2021

I’ve looked at probably 15 dozers over the last few years and finally found a clean 1998 650G with 4800 hrs that was a trade in. I went all over it at the lot. Looked where it been parked. Appeared it had been there a while. Had the Johndeere dealer do a complete service. Fix anything I saw wrong with it such as a leaky exhaust stack, some hydro lines sealing etc. Close to $4,000 grand worth of work. Over all though a clean machine.
I buy it and run 3 hrs and park it. Come back to it the next day the left final drive has leaked all the fluid out to the inside of the track. Then it was about a quart of oil low coming from the bottom of the belly pan. I called the dealer he was super nice said they should have found that but now getting “upper management” says it was sold with no warranty which I understand.
Soo. How bad is this repair bill fixing to be? It’s a farm machine can I just put fluid in it every time I run it.

kleener · Jan 28, 2021

Whilst there is no warranty as such, is there any local legislation that says something must be fit for purpose when sold? (there is in Australia)
Or some moral 'suasion " Maaate, this is as dodgy as, how about we share the repair bill, you pay 90%, I will pay the rest and won't bad mouth your operation for the next 40 years..."

donkey doctor · Jan 28, 2021

So if you had seen the leaks when you did your inspection and had the work done then would it still have been $4000 or maybe 5000 or 6000 to do even more repairs. I guess I wonder would it have been pay then or pay now. d.d.

Puffie40 · Jan 28, 2021

Zac chandler said:
I buy it and run 3 hrs and park it. Come back to it the next day the left final drive has leaked all the fluid out to the inside of the track.

Sounds like a sprocket seal on the final drive. Could you have found some barbed wire?

I'm not familiar with deeres, but it looks like the final drive has to come off and the hub pressed out to get at that seal. Thankfully the track frames don't need to be messed with like with the (older) Cats.

It would be cheaper overall to do most of the wrenching yourself to pull the final drive, then get either the dealer or a machine shop to change the seal out.

If you bought it with no warranty, its likely going to be an uphill battle to try to fight with the dealer. I'd look into your legislations "lemon laws" to see if there is anything you can do.

Dave Neubert · Jan 28, 2021

I would fix the leak if oil can get out water and dirt can get in not worth ruining a final drive for. I agree with puffie-40 looks like you unbolt whole final drive off of machine to get to retainer on back side of axle

Delmer · Jan 28, 2021

Did you check the oil level before they did the work? I bet they filled it up nice for you, and it hadn't leaked sitting because it was empty. Here you'd have a hard time getting them to do anything on a used purchase, unless you had some pull somehow (inlaws, know where the bodies are buried, etc.)

alaskaforby4 · Jan 28, 2021

Did something similar several years ago, ended up catching a piece of small rope of all things. Got in there and cut the seal, it was difficult getting ahold of the "ham" to lift it off of there. The bearing ended up being siezed on the shaft, so that had to be cut off to reach the seal. It was a fun process, needless to say now when I'm operating and see wire,rope etc. come up in the track pads, I stop and remove it! I can send you repair manual if you have a email.

lantraxco · Jan 28, 2021

Delmer said:
Did you check the oil level before they did the work? I bet they filled it up nice for you, and it hadn't leaked sitting because it was empty. Here you'd have a hard time getting them to do anything on a used purchase, unless you had some pull somehow (inlaws, know where the bodies are buried, etc.)

True story, but there's a case there for arguing that if the tech that filled it put the capacity of the final in to bring it up to snuff, or pulled the drain plug to change out the fluid and a teaspoon ran out, there should have been an investigation. No warranty on the machine, but if nothing else I would have a word with the service mangler (sic) and either get satisfaction through an "adjustment" or a well chewed butt breakfast. The warranty is about the service department not catching it.

epirbalex · Jan 28, 2021

Both leaks need to be fixed . I would not try to fix them until you know if the sellers will fix it or not . Touch it and its yours . Are the hours correct , dozer should be on its second set of rollers,chaims etc or the one its on should be worn out .

skyking1 · Jan 28, 2021

As posted above I bet that final drive was dry until they filled it. That's why you didn't see any leaks underneath when you looked at the first time.

Tinkerer · Jan 28, 2021

If it leaked prior to you bringing the machine home, a trail of oil would be on all the track pads. It would be obvious if the dealer cleaned them to hide the problem. IMHO.

catman13 · Jan 29, 2021

i would talk to the dealer , if you put 3 hours on it they may just fix it to keep you quiet.
i bought a used 289 ctl from cat, had them inspect it and change fluids , put about 2 hours on it finished the job i was on and it was raining so ran it in the shop to grease it and look it over , and i found some loose and missing bolt on the torsion bars , i called the salesman at the dealer and let him have it , i told him i paid for inspection and they did not see this, told him i want my money back , he went to management and told them i was mad and they had a truck under it in 2 hours and repaired it at their expense and i have a 300 hours now and still happy

John C. · Jan 29, 2021

Buyer beware! Your at the mercy of whether or not they feel inclined to help you. Jumping up and down on the service manager's desk is one negotiating tactic. I wouldn't recommend it though. Just be nice up front and use calm and logical reason. If still no, I might mention how well the internet is for marketing now days.

Zac chandler · Jan 30, 2021

Well re cap checked the fluids, filled the final drive, cranked her up. Made it about 90 yds and greanated the engine. Oil every where, thought the damn thing lit on fire.
So this is 100% the last time I buy a old machine. I have zero luck. I’d say Im stupid but I paid good money from a respectable dealer who I trust to run through it etc. machine always fired up easy and the 3 hrs I ran it ran great. Then today I was just pulling it to the gate so I can get it moved to the shop and boom. I guess I just have a big yard art. With no money to buy a another.

Tinkerer · Jan 30, 2021

Could you post some details as to what the damage is ?

CM1995 · Jan 30, 2021

Alabama is a buyer beware state so if it were me, I'd use the approach John C suggested - kindness, as threats won't get you very far.

Zac chandler · Feb 1, 2021

Tinkerer said:
Could you post some details as to what the damage is ?

I fired it up. Let it warm up for a few mins and started driving it to the gate for easy load up. It may be 100 yds to the gate. About 50 yds in 3 rd gear I noticed white smoke coming out the front. Looked like oil on a muffler smoke. I throttled down and got off to look. When I got to the front I heard a faint ticking noise. Got back on the machine throttled to quarter way and put in 2nd gear. I have 60-70 yds to get to gate. I make it 10 more yards when motor reved up quick, then a lot of metal on metal noises then smoke come out of the cab area, sides and front with in about 2 secs. I killed the machine. I heard what I thought was a fire sizzling. I grabbed my extengshier and opened the engine compartment. No fire just sizzling and smoke. I did not try to crank it again. I contacted my salesman and was super nice. He apologized and said he thinks it will be all right and there coming this week to get it.

Zac chandler · Feb 1, 2021

alaskaforby4 said:
Did something similar several years ago, ended up catching a piece of small rope of all things. Got in there and cut the seal, it was difficult getting ahold of the "ham" to lift it off of there. The bearing ended up being siezed on the shaft, so that had to be cut off to reach the seal. It was a fun process, needless to say now when I'm operating and see wire,rope etc. come up in the track pads, I stop and remove it! I can send you repair manual if you have a email.

View attachment 232953 View attachment 232954

Thank you for that. My troubles are worse then I thought so it’s going back to dealer for evaluation on what’s next. I think I just got a bad hand on this one and going to play it as wisely as possible

epirbalex · Feb 2, 2021

Sounds like the tubo flew to bits . Lifting of the revs can be caused by tubo oil entering the motor . Lucky the engin was not hot because you may not have been able to stop it . I know guy who stuffed a Terex with his cloths to stop one of them .

Vetech63 · Feb 2, 2021

This sounds like some of my luck on really bad days.

How bad is it.

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