Battery Powered Equipment

92U 3406 said:

I just don't see how say a logging operation working somewhere remote would be able to operate electric machines? Diesel generators I guess????

I was reading an article yesterday from Europe that said if one were to factor in the entire environmental impact of an electric car vs a diesel car, it would take on average of 270,000 kilometers before the electric car showed a better environmental impact. It then went on to state the average car in Europe lasts about 180,000 kilometers.

I'm all for cleaner technology and preserving the planet but people really need to look at things realistically. Its going to take a lot of upgrades to the electrical grid and power generation in order to support a mass adoption of electric vehicles.

Then you need to look at the tax aspect. Like Welder Dave mentioned, fuel here is taxed to nuts. I can't see electricity be given a free pass from taxes. I could see the government requiring odometer reporting and charging taxes based on mileage driven.

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Charging equipment with generators makes it absolutely pointless. So we are going to kill any efficiency gains plus add more material and cost not to mention complexity just to “feel good”

Insanity.

hosspuller said:

This is the crux of the problem. Most of the US population lives in a city. City dwellers have lost perspective on food production, energy use, transportation, distribution, and self reliance. Everything comes to them. Water out of a tap, lights at a switch, meat in plastic, drinks in a bottle, restaurant via Grub-hub, transport via taxi or mass transit, call someone for help in almost all cases. AND they vote...

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Exactly. Reality is lost they only see what is in front of them and then they don’t think logically they are all about emotions. No concept of how the world actually works just “Well I feel...” and then get mad at you when you tell them “Well you feel wrong because that’s not how it works”

I will try and keep this nonpolitical but.... Biden killed the Keystone pipeline which I am sure everyone here knows, but they are also about to stop all further oil and gas leases on Gov. land and already increasing the CAFE requirements on passenger cars. The Paris Climate Accord is back in our lives. It relates to the topic of this thread like this, the cost of fuel is going up, likely way up. Electric cars and likely heavy equipment along with it is coming and it is going to come faster than perhaps any of us realize. Electric vehicles will quickly be forced upon us (either by forcing extremely high fuel prices or regulation) and they don't give two shitts about how it effects us or the economy. The comments about vast numbers of Americans having no idea who things gets done outside in the real world are spot on. However that isn't going to change what is coming for all of us, both privately and in the running of our businesses. Taxes, fuel costs, regulations and bureaucracy have always been a part of working in the dirt business, I think we can anticipate these issues on a level that we have yet to see. The ambitiousness of this movement is incredible. We shall see how this plays, but I think we can anticipate the phasing out of fossil fuels immediately whether we as a country are ready for that or not.

So airline travel will likely have huge increases and what about trains delivering goods? Curious what BS they will use to justify a new tax to make up for the loss of fuel tax, a low pollution tax?

You guys are absolutely right, those with little to no clue about anything vote through bills that affect us all everywhere, how it gets implemented is not really there problem, that's our problem. My grandpa used to say there are two kinds of people in this world, those with the smart mouths and brains and those that roll up their sleeves, do the work, implement those ideas and pay for it all. I think that saying still applies today.

Whats coming, the way I see it, is far more in the "idea" category than in the "reality" category. Not to say its all going to be bad, everything starts with an idea, the issue I see coming is in today's age, everyone wants everything to be "instant" not in a few years or a few decades kind of thing. Will battery technology get there, in the future I'm sure it will, but no matter how or what happens, the efficiency will have to be far greater than is even in existence today or in the near future for that matter.

The whole diesel electric idea, when they were first talking about putting them in semi trucks, they bragged they could run the generators for an over the road truck with a small 80 hp four cylinder diesel engine, eliminate the transmission, drive line and differentials lowering the total overall weight of the truck and increasing its efficiency, what was that 25 years ago now? Did anyone actually build this semi and is it being run with a small four cylinder diesel engine pulling 80,000 plus lbs around? I've never heard about it if it has happened, anyone want to shed some light on it if it has, sure would be nice if it were a reality today.

I see the battery technology going to same route, take a battery out of the hand held power tool and most expect to be able to stick that same battery into the port on the dash of their car and run the car for 500 miles and use the alternator [that's not there] to keep that battery charged the whole time, seriously I've been told this by college graduates and its what they believe, or have been brain washed to believe is the technology available today, its just government oppression that keeps that technology from us in order to feed the large oil companies and fat cats making millions off the people?? They also think you can hook your battery that's already in the backhoe, [used to start it] and instead of starting the backhoe, they feel that battery will run the backhoe for an entire day by itself [electric backhoe], this is the level of brainwashing these kids today have been taught and what they truly believe is out there for technology. Now can it be, maybe someday, but before that can happen, I'm thinking someone smarter than Einstein will have to come up with some far greater calculations for energy conversion, but most don't or won't understand that. Political or not, this is the generation and thinking that is going to implement a lot of stuff to "attempt" to make it happen. Like I told the kids who were telling me all this idiotic stuff, I said great, but your forgetting a few things, first you can vote it through, next you can then realize its not an instant reality and last, in your lifetime you get to pay for it all, weather you have it or not, only then will you realize what you did to yourself and all others and when it doesn't happen, you can then blame everyone who's long dead. I'm not sure how many trillions more we should spend on education if the past how many trillions have kicked out high school and college graduates who are this smart now.

brain washed to believe is the technology available today, its just government oppression that keeps that technology from us in order to feed the large oil companies and fat cats making millions off the people??

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I had one science and physics teacher in high school tell us that a 100mpg carb existed but the greedy oil companies suppressed it and then a physics professor in college tell me that DeLoreans were invisible to police radar which made them popular so the production had to be outlawed. These whack jobs who should know better are putting all kinds of physically impossible ideas into kids heads.

The rise in gas prices from what happened this past week will be blamed exclusively on the “fat cat greedy oil companies” by the economically illiterate crowd. Ignoring the fact that if oil companies were so greedy prices would never have dropped in the first place.

The idiots also don’t understand that a company exists to make money, not make them feel good emotionally. It is literally the only reason for a company to exist. Providing wages in exchange for labor is how a company benefits a worker. Nothing more, nothing less.

They have no concept of how economics work at all and are stuck at the kindergarten level of how things work. As someone who actually does understand stuff it’s frustrating to watch. They get their education from people who have lived their entire adult life in a sheltered academia life.

As I've said before, I believe batteries are only a stop-gap measure before we get to hydrogen fuel cells... And I agree that the electric grid is no where near robust enough now to handle millions of rechargers.
Off setting this is the fact that most recharging will probably happen at night, when there is usually excess generating power available & the grid is under utilized. Also, there is already a quiet push to build more pump-storage facilities to bolster peak power demand.

The Keystone pipeline was proposed only to ship oil to refineries in the US and then to export that Canadian oil out. The pipeline provides little economic benefit to anyone in the US outside of the few refinery and port district jobs it might have provided. As far as a pipeline through the US for Canadian benefit goes, Canada should be building their own refineries and pipelines through their own country to their own port facilities. The US is a net exporter of oil already. The price of oil will go up as demand rises no matter what. It's the states that add taxes onto the price in an effort to maintain highways. As far as cars and trucks go, I look for more hybrid systems to come on line with battery assist until something like hydrogen can start being viable. The problem with hydrogen is the cost of extracting it out of water and then a viable infrastructure that can dispense it. A total electric transportation system though is always ten years down the road. It will be that way tomorrow, next week, next month, next year and ten years from now.
So how could the electric backhoe be made to work? Can you make it hybrid with a diesel for traveling and electric for using the implements or maybe the other way around? Would that be an energy savings? What about more use of accumulators along with the electrics.
I know that as a country we are moving forward and that there will be issues to work through. Using energy efficiently will be the main driver or the key asset to keep us all in motion. It is pretty clear that the status quo is changing and many are going resist that change. My idea with the thread was to identify the issues with current proposed power systems. True American ideals would be thinking of ways to overcome those issues. Instead we are ending up with a bitch session of why nothing will work.

My father has a little diesel gmc canyon and really likes it. A few weeks ago it was at the dealer to get some work done and they gave him a chevy Bolt. He drove that around for a week and loved it. The regenerative braking worked amazing and the best part was when you got in at -15 it blows hot air right away. We pay 6 cents a kilowatt hour so when he did the math it worked out to basicly nothing to charge. He has decided when my mothers escape gets rough the next one will be a fully electric. Thats from a man who always had nova's with a built 396 and and honda 750ss bikes.

John C. said:

...I know that as a country we are moving forward and that there will be issues to work through. Using energy efficiently will be the main driver or the key asset to keep us all in motion. It is pretty clear that the status quo is changing and many are going resist that change. My idea with the thread was to identify the issues with current proposed power systems. True American ideals would be thinking of ways to overcome those issues.

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The beauty of the marketplace is that it will be sorted out as soon as it is necessary. The frustration is that it will not happen before it is necessary.

The old dinosaurs will feel some pain by not keeping their ear to the ground and getting with the program as things change.

Right now I do not see things changing drastically any time soon. If it was going to happen, then there would not be any necessity for all these Rube Goldberg Tier 4 contraptions. No one would buy them if there was something better available. But there isn't.

I work in the off grid power industry. Huge batteries that power a house for days or more. They are huge and very expensive. And even with the best solar, the customer still needs a generator for the cloudy times in winter. Diesel or propane.

At 30, I'm old dinosaur. I'll probably be "that guy" paying $6/litre for gas just because V8

Reading the specs. on the Polaris electric UTV it uses 8 batteries they say can last up to 4 years. They will last about 2 hours/50 miles (in max. range) between charges and takes 8 hours to charge but a quick charger will reduce that about 40%. Don't think the technology for electrics is there yet. I can see the headlines, search for snowmobilers on as it's expected their batteries went dead.

I had read that we are no longer a net exporter of oil. I don't know if that is true or not, however without approving drill permits on Fed ground or fracking we certainly will be back to importing oil.

KSSS said:

I had read that we are no longer a net exporter of oil. I don't know if that is true or not, however without approving drill permits on Fed ground or fracking we certainly will be back to importing oil.

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which in turns opens the door for another “blood for oil” happy fun time in the Middle East plus puts us at the mercy of the OPEC cartel.

JD955SC said:

which in turns opens the door for another “blood for oil” happy fun time in the Middle East plus puts us at the mercy of the OPEC cartel.

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If only there was another place more ethical to get oil from, possibly through a line of some kind.....

And less expensive too.

suladas said:

If only there was another place more ethical to get oil from, possibly through a line of some kind.....

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But think of the poor starving Military Industrial complex when there is no Endless War! Those kids aren’t going to drone strike themselves.

suladas said:

If only there was another place more ethical economical to get oil from, possibly through a line of some kind.....

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Fixed it for ya.