Battery Powered Equipment

Spud_Monkey said:

And when the power goes out on your house you can back feed the Tesla into your home to power it up and same as such for electric equipment instead of a generator that might not work due to stuck float or clogged jet. Bet you didn't know you can't charge your Tesla in temperatures below 32 degrees Fahrenheit without the coolant heater on board that flows warming coolant around the batteries. Charging lithium in below freezing temperatures will damage them.

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Bet you didn't know I've already charged the car successfully at temps colder than 32. Something in there works fine.

Yes that would be the automatic on board battery heater. It takes a substantial amount of your charge to keep the battery warm. I’ve heard as much as 1800 watts. If you leave the car outside in the winter it’s burning up your charge all day long to keep the battery warm.
If you have an electric car you really need a heated garage to keep it in.
I wonder what the cost of keeping the battery warm would be on a fleet of construction equipment at -40 while the job is shutdown for holidays. Also if you have an electric hoe that’s parked outside for long periods in the winter who is going to keep it plugged in sucking power to stay warm. Not sure if you can just let them sit dead and frozen . Maybe it’s not a problem for battery life.

Evening Digger said:

Bet you didn't know I've already charged the car successfully at temps colder than 32. Something in there works fine.

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I bet you I did know that

Spud_Monkey said:

without the coolant heater on board that flows warming coolant around the batteries.

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I have lived in Georgia, went to Basic/AIT there and R.A.S.P. along few other schools Uncle Sam has there so I know the temperatures well there.

You can about imagine how often this cord is going to get run over or damaged. I could see it being nice on a job that the crane didn't move for 3 months. But it would be a pain in the rear to set tilt ups or steel on a big building when you're moving all around. Who has a 500' long extension cord to charge with? Think the general contractor is going to put outlets around the jobsite to charge it?

crane operator said:

Electric is getting popular with the contractors working in london, they have emissions restrictions. I've read articles on telehandlers, manlifts, etc. that are all electric. .

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Sure it's more popular when the government is mandating it...

Just to be devils advocate, could you image how big of a diesel engine you'd need to run a walking dragline. The largest, Big Muskie, had the equivalent of 62,900 H.P. It used the same power as a town of 27,500 people. Not only were the drag cables 5" diameter, the power cord was too! In some cases electric power is better.

In my state any electric on road vehicle gets billed each year for mileage on a per mile basis because they are not paying fuel tax to maintain the roads, so instead they are billed for the road usage, most forget to mention that part of the costs.

So we switch to electric machines, if the charging rate is accurate and I'm running a dozen machines on any given jobsite, times 40 amps per machine, I don't think even the local power companies are prepared to attempt to give anywhere near that kind of power to any rural area, let alone any single rural customer to even come close to meeting the charging demand, let alone all their rural customers. Many of the larger hog and dairy setups are forced to go with standby generators now due limited electric power that power companies can provide, basically, each sites power demands far exceed even the power companies capabilities to supply it on a daily basis.

One of the local electric companies now has one large single user, he's a farmer with livestock setups everywhere throughout the electric companies territory, he's been told if he builds anymore setups, he has to provide all his own power for each new setup and go off grid, its impossible for the power company to even come close to meeting his demand for power, and they also serve some very large towns and cities as well, many are being told no when it comes to adding more power, more and larger amp service entrances, its just not possible at this time to provide the power, the near future isn't looking good either. So in my area, the demand for power far exceeds the supply, all new transmission lines would have to built, new plants would have to go online after being built, new substations installed and the costs skyrocket from there.................and now everyone thinks we should go all electric, just whom is going to provide all this power and how is the question I have.

I've been told they decommissioned the local nuke plant, its pretty much coal fired now, so when people talk about electric cars being green, then they plug them into the grid, which is coal fired, where does the green portion enter into it?

Not only road tax but the cost of fuel is more in taxes than the fuel portion of the price. How are they going to compensate for that? In Canada we have Federal and Provincial tax on fuel and most provinces also have a carbon tax. Thankfully Alberta repealed the federal carbon tax. Even if they have rebates for carbon taxes, the administration cost's negate the gains from the increased taxes. That is/was the case with the GST. Some people were suggesting a flat 2 or 3% GST for everyone and no rebates.

Anything with large numbers of users, the Gov't. wants their share of the action. They don't want people to stop smoking or drinking. They would lose too much on taxes. They probably hate that they can't tax all the bottled water sold or charge a tax for cleaner air. Maybe with more electric vehicles they will introduce a cleaner air tax???

Remember the ones that advocate for it the loudest think that waving a magic wand makes it so. They don’t care about nor understand infrastructure or real life. Just like you can tell them that solar and wind can’t provide reliable, steady grid power due to the varied output till you are blue in the face and they will look at you, nod, and then say “we need more wind and solar power”

I was just in my local Stihl shop and flicked through a pamphlet while waiting for the guy to get my parts.
Advertised was an electric ride-on mower, $8000NZD and the battery lasts 1 hour, with a 4 hour charge time.
I think the technology has a long way to go until it becomes practicable for the average person

Randy88 said:

In my state any electric on road vehicle gets billed each year for mileage on a per mile basis because they are not paying fuel tax to maintain the roads, so instead they are billed for the road usage, most forget to mention that part of the costs.

So we switch to electric machines, if the charging rate is accurate and I'm running a dozen machines on any given jobsite, times 40 amps per machine, I don't think even the local power companies are prepared to attempt to give anywhere near that kind of power to any rural area, let alone any single rural customer to even come close to meeting the charging demand, let alone all their rural customers. Many of the larger hog and dairy setups are forced to go with standby generators now due limited electric power that power companies can provide, basically, each sites power demands far exceed even the power companies capabilities to supply it on a daily basis.

One of the local electric companies now has one large single user, he's a farmer with livestock setups everywhere throughout the electric companies territory, he's been told if he builds anymore setups, he has to provide all his own power for each new setup and go off grid, its impossible for the power company to even come close to meeting his demand for power, and they also serve some very large towns and cities as well, many are being told no when it comes to adding more power, more and larger amp service entrances, its just not possible at this time to provide the power, the near future isn't looking good either. So in my area, the demand for power far exceeds the supply, all new transmission lines would have to built, new plants would have to go online after being built, new substations installed and the costs skyrocket from there.................and now everyone thinks we should go all electric, just whom is going to provide all this power and how is the question I have.

I've been told they decommissioned the local nuke plant, its pretty much coal fired now, so when people talk about electric cars being green, then they plug them into the grid, which is coal fired, where does the green portion enter into it?

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Elon Musk admitted that the "grid" can't handle the increasing number of electric cars. Kiwi-truckwit is correct. The technology has a long was to go.

Coal mining for steam is getting closer to dead all the time. I attended a conference this morning where an economist stated that the people under thirty have stars in their eyes talking about electric generation and infrastructure. I talked to one of my sales rep friends who was of the sentiment that if it only takes five minutes or so to fill up a gas tank on a car but it takes around four hours to recharge an electric car, people won't be inclined to purchase one. The economist stated that electricity in an urban setting might make sense as travel is somewhat within the range of an electric. Both guys said the current power grid is not built for that kind of use. California already has the problem of line droop in hot weather causing wild fires. Put a million electric cars on top of that charging batteries every night, add in all the construction machinery charging batteries and what you have is problems just keeping the lights on at night and the computer running.

John C. said:

Coal mining for steam is getting closer to dead all the time. I attended a conference this morning where an economist stated that the people under thirty have stars in their eyes talking about electric generation and infrastructure. I talked to one of my sales rep friends who was of the sentiment that if it only takes five minutes or so to fill up a gas tank on a car but it takes around four hours to recharge an electric car, people won't be inclined to purchase one. The economist stated that electricity in an urban setting might make sense as travel is somewhat within the range of an electric. Both guys said the current power grid is not built for that kind of use. California already has the problem of line droop in hot weather causing wild fires. Put a million electric cars on top of that charging batteries every night, add in all the construction machinery charging batteries and what you have is problems just keeping the lights on at night and the computer running.

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Try explaining that to the whiz kids who think electric cars, solar, and wind cure all ills. They have no concept of the problems and needs of society, especially the needs of the quietly productive parts that keep the rest running.

If these idiots knew farm tractors existed they’d mandate them to be all electric and then complain when we all starve because there isn’t enough food.

The current generation of people just don't understand the scale of modern life. I have encountered several instances of people advocating using car batteries for household power. They don't realize the engine actually charges the battery. Nor does the general public have any idea of how much power modern life requires. Witness the number of people asking about running the microwave & A/C in their RV on a battery (on camping forums)

As for solar and wind power, if it weren't for the tax subsidies and gov't mandates, they would be scrapped years ago. Remember the poster that was asking about cutting up wind turbine blades ?? People just don't understand fatigue life and cutting 4 inches of fiberglass for landfill disposal.

Our education system is doing a poor job of education while doing well at political indoctrination.

What we are witnessing folks is an industry that is concerned with change and manufacturers that dont want to be left behind no one has an answer for any of the draw backs on electric cars let alone electric equipment and what's more adverse to the standard market is the market is not looking to adapt from it's current basis so just like the development of conventional machinery the next gen equipment is going to have major growing pains and be more dependent on conditions or outside of market influences to bring about any need for change because it is a pipe dream from cost effective at the moment

John C. said:

Coal mining for steam is getting closer to dead all the time. I attended a conference this morning where an economist stated that the people under thirty have stars in their eyes talking about electric generation and infrastructure. I talked to one of my sales rep friends who was of the sentiment that if it only takes five minutes or so to fill up a gas tank on a car but it takes around four hours to recharge an electric car, people won't be inclined to purchase one. The economist stated that electricity in an urban setting might make sense as travel is somewhat within the range of an electric. Both guys said the current power grid is not built for that kind of use. California already has the problem of line droop in hot weather causing wild fires. Put a million electric cars on top of that charging batteries every night, add in all the construction machinery charging batteries and what you have is problems just keeping the lights on at night and the computer running.

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I think electric everything is good for california. Overload their grid so badly there is non stop black outs, and stop shipping in dirty fuel. Let all them tree huggers live in the dark with no a/c and no where to charge their fancy EV.

suladas said:

I think electric everything is good for california. Overload their grid so badly there is non stop black outs, and stop shipping in dirty fuel. Let all them tree huggers live in the dark with no a/c and no where to charge their fancy EV.

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Down side of that is there will be a huge exodus of refugees to the other states. Bringing their voting pattern and attitudes. Keep them in California.

If an average backhoe is 100 hp and it takes 40 amps on 240 power overnight to charge, I think that was the figure given out before, just to charge SOME of my machines, by no means all, but some would require 800 amps of 240 power overnight to charge, if just those machines were on one jobsite sitting, first off in order to get them near the main service entrance pole in a rural yard would take pickup loads of power cords to reach them all, second, nobody's yard could possible fit them all in, third, the average service entrance size in my area is 200 amps, some of the larger farmers have up to 1000 amps of service, some at 1200 amps or more, but they need that for themselves, that's the reason why they have it that large now, there is nothing left over for me to use. Toss in many have three phase power, which in turn would need to be converted back to single phase to charge machines, then toss on 220, 230, 240 power depending on where your at and what's popular, some have 440 power and a few are now at 880 power all who would need to have converters or I'd have to have converters to do the changeover to charge my stuff.

The alternative is to provide my own power, with a self contained power unit, now if I split up the machine on multiple jobsites, that means I'll need several generators, of multiple sizes to get the job done, I think if I figured correctly it would take 12 generators of varying sizes for me alone to charge my machines, all would have to towable behind a pickup, the larger ones would be semi pulled and then on top of that I'd need backup units in case [or when] they were in need of repair. On top of this I'd have hire a dedicated electrician to keep them going and operating, especially with the newer electronics on them and with built in shut downs for everything, someone would have to monitor them all night long via internet, except for about half the sites and places I work, that don't get a signal, those sites someone would have to drive to several times per night to check to make sure the generators were working properly. Couple this to the fact I do work in about a 100 mile radius of my shop, so the person doing the checking could possibly travel 4-500 miles per night easily checking on the charging setups so we could run and operate the next morning. All this to save what exactly?? time, fuel, cheaper to operate, be more efficient, labor savings, better for the environment?? what?? Now just like electric cars, I would then be more green, so instead of burning gas or diesel which is bad [fossil fuels] I'd be using diesel generators instead?, or if I could plug them into the grid somewhere, which right now is highly unlikely, I'd be using electricity generated off the grid, which is coal fired, also fossil fuel. Someone explain to me exactly who thinks this makes any sense??

I know the discussion is about a backhoe, but one piece leads to the next and so on and so fourth, but the problem is still the same, with one piece, ten or 50, the only thing different is the size of the problems involved.

Randy88 said:

... but one piece leads to the next and so on and so fourth, but the problem is still the same, with one piece, ten or 50, the only thing different is the size of the problems involved.

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This is the crux of the problem. Most of the US population lives in a city. City dwellers have lost perspective on food production, energy use, transportation, distribution, and self reliance. Everything comes to them. Water out of a tap, lights at a switch, meat in plastic, drinks in a bottle, restaurant via Grub-hub, transport via taxi or mass transit, call someone for help in almost all cases. AND they vote...

I just don't see how say a logging operation working somewhere remote would be able to operate electric machines? Diesel generators I guess????

I was reading an article yesterday from Europe that said if one were to factor in the entire environmental impact of an electric car vs a diesel car, it would take on average of 270,000 kilometers before the electric car showed a better environmental impact. It then went on to state the average car in Europe lasts about 180,000 kilometers.

I'm all for cleaner technology and preserving the planet but people really need to look at things realistically. Its going to take a lot of upgrades to the electrical grid and power generation in order to support a mass adoption of electric vehicles.

Then you need to look at the tax aspect. Like Welder Dave mentioned, fuel here is taxed to nuts. I can't see electricity be given a free pass from taxes. I could see the government requiring odometer reporting and charging taxes based on mileage driven.