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580C Transaxle- whats on my gears?

alrman

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Jun 20, 2009
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Diesel Fitter;Small Business Owner;Cleaner
That type of bearing failure was very common here in Australia.
Before the 580C was even officially released, four of the first ones to sell had all failed within a couple of weeks of delivery.
That was just at the dealership where I worked.
It was before my time there, the cause was that they all were delivered new for the first time - with 4in1 buckets.
Dragging the bucket backwards with an open clam put an extraordinary load on the snap rings on the pinion shaft.
The D & E transaxle used a flanged bearing cup to strengthen the design.
Not sure on the C model if there ever was an upgrade??
 

lantraxco

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Elsewhen
Might be worth a gander through the bearing charts, there may be a bearing with the same ID, larger OD, and maybe a snap ring groove, if you can install the snap ring on the inside. Bore and face the housing? Good machinist scratch his head and sort that out I think.
 

DirtyHoe

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Jun 18, 2016
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290
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Albany, Oregon
Stinky64- The groove is damaged all the way around unfortunately. Because it pushed the snap ring out at an angle, the shoulder of the groove is deformed. I'm pretty sure the case is made of cast iron so MIG would not weld correctly.

ALRman- Good to know the history of this. Case must have corrected it because I don't see anything on the forums with this type of damage. Broken gear teeth seem to be the biggest problem.

Lantraxco- I'll look at bearing options. The force on the bearing cup is to the inside of the housing so the snap ring would need to be on the outside of the casting.

I've made a few calls and I'm waiting for salvage yard pricing and machine shop estimates. One machine shop said $600 to 800 to bore and counterbore. Then I would machine a stepped bushing and use the same bearing. I should be able to get the bushing to locate in the same place as the snap ring with some measurements. That way I can use Case shims for the gear clearances and not have to make any more modifications. Below is my concept bushing drawing. Any suggestions on wall thicknesses? I have it drawn at .14 inches at the thinnest part. If pricing is similar what would be the better choice a used housing or my machined repair?

Steve


Rendering of bushing.JPG Rendering of bushing1.JPG
 
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stinky64

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java center ny
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big truck wrench/fixer of things
Steve, there's a used one on ebay right now,$600.00 OBO stuifbergenequipmentllc is the seller, in Kalamazoo, may be worth a look.. pn a51952
 

DirtyHoe

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Albany, Oregon
Lantraxco pointed me in the right direction- Thanks!
I found this Timken tapered roller bearing(TSF 14116 - 14276-B) that is the same size as the original but with a flange. The snap ring in the bore is installed .5" deep which made the original bearing stick out about .125". The new bearing would stick out an additional .031". The diameter of the flange(2.869") and the extra stick out would not interfere with the cover. The flange would also just miss the small oil drain hole below the bore. The front of the housing is a good machined surface for the flange to mount against. The bore/bearing is still a press fit and the bearing would not touch the damaged area on the inside of the bore.

This solution would save me from purchasing a used housing or getting the damaged one machined. I would have to use a thicker selective spacer(custom made and heat-treated) to remove the extra gear spacing(.031") created by the new bearing location.

Do you guys see any reason why this would not hold up better than the original design?

Steve

Bearing.JPG Housing.jpg
 

stinky64

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As long as it doesn't interfere with the cover and you've got the rest of the numbers worked out, it's a brilliant fix in my opinion..You've actually got the same animal on the other end of that shaft.. A lot more cost effective than the other 2 options as well...I replaced that other animal, pn a30115 $132 for oem timken bearing/cup w/ snap ring. Hope it works.. May the tractor force be with you....
 

DirtyHoe

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I'm doing the final disassembly and finding a few bearings that have pitting on the races. Not from corrosion, but from metal particles getting pinched between the rollers.
I took some measurements and have a concern I might not be able to get the proper ring and pinion gear backlash. Basically, I think their mesh will loose after removing all of the left side shims. Also, my side gears will need a smaller shim to get the proper clearance.
Are my ring and pinion gears worn out or do they have some life left in them?

Steve

20210127_194542.jpg 20210127_194640.jpg
 

stinky64

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Steve, don't understand the post, if you're removing all the shims, everything should get tighter, same for the side gear thrust washers being thinner, that would I think make your side gears looser.......As far as the ring and pinion shaft, I think they are ok to run, that's a couple of expensive parts..make sure to check the spider gears and their pins , they were roached on mine ....How did you make out matching up that snap ring cup for the broken case?
 
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DirtyHoe

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I think I can get the proper preload on the side gear bearings. I don't think I can move the ring into the pinion enough to remove the backlash(.005-.009") between gears. The left side controls the amount of gear mesh. There were only a couple of thin shims to begin with and they will need to be removed.

Steve
 

stinky64

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Sorry, that eluded me at first glance, tough to set up w/tapered gear..how does the ring look to the naked eye, not that bad in pic...I feel your pain, I got lucky with the gears but had to replace everything else..I just scoured my records for pricelist from rebuild for a new pinion shaft price from tractor stuff but it must be down in the shop, but I don't think it is a deal breaker....that pin in the ring gear photo was also a total loss for me, with all the shavings in that general area check them as well
 

DirtyHoe

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I found a new Timken snap ring cup on Ebay for $40 with free shipping. Local bearing store was $225 and no stock. So that was a great find. Looks like any savings will get eaten up on extra parts unfortunately.
 

stinky64

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Good deal on the cup, I was mistaken on my quote about the pinion shaft...Unless you find a used one, you'll probably need to order those gears as a set:( that may get pricey....
 

DirtyHoe

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Here are some pictures of what I worked on today. The center hub and the thrust washers galled. Maybe it was damaged from another incident. The oil was decent and nothing else inside is galled. I faced the center hub on the lathe to remove the damaged surface(about .006 per side). I will surface grind the thrust washers. They need to be thinner anyway because of excessive gear clearance on the side gears. The large diameter where the ring gear mounts only had .002" of runout. I decided not to reface it. Since it was on the lathe I polished up either end of the cross shaft so the oil seal and side gears have a smoother surface to run on.

The manual says to replace the 12 ring gear bolts. Are the Case grade 8 bolts anything special or can I get grade 8 at my local hardware store and save a few dollars?

Steve

Galled.jpg Galled other end.jpg Facing.jpg Cleaned up.jpg
 

DirtyHoe

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The 3 small pinion gears are in great shape. The shaft that it rides on is slightly egged shaped(.0015 out of round). The total clearance between the gear bore and the shaft is about .005.
At first, I thought the retaining pins all broke into pieces. But the parts manual says there should be 2 pins per gear shaft. But all the retaining pins are the wrong lengths. The shortest one missed the cross hole on the shaft. They should be 2.0 and .875 inches in length. I will replace them. It's looking more and more like a hack was inside here.

Wrong lenght pins.jpg
 
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edgephoto

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In my 35+ years in the automotive business, the last 13 being on site technical support for a major manufacturer, I can honestly say I only know maybe 10-12 technicians who can properly setup a gear box or differential. Most others just take it apart and put it back together with new bearings and hope for the best.

I would say likely your machine had an issue and a hack tried to fix it and failed.

Looking good by the way!
 

stinky64

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My machine is a 76 and the parts may have been upgraded, but I had single pins in the spider shafts..
 

DirtyHoe

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Do any of the veteran Case mechanics know why just the 580C model required 2 pins instead of 1? It looks like the B, D, and E models only required one pin to secure the spider gear pin. I don't see how two pins would off any more shear strength than one pin. There shouldn't be hardly any rotational forces on this assembly when it's operating in an oil bath.

Case parts.JPG
 
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