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New (for me) Cat 953 LGP. Advice?

greg580b

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Messages
53
Location
St. Louis MO
Stepping up a bit in equipment - size at least. Got a deal on a 953 LGP, SN 05Z00882. Buying from a known guy who has lots of equipment. It's his 'round the house' machine. My son knows him and has done some work for him (son's a machinist and has line bored a couple of his machines). Anyway, he's been real straight up about the condition. It needs some TLC for sure (exhaust leaks, broken bolt on turbo, etc). Deal is pretty good especially as we are cash tight (in start of a farm build - clearing, new roads, barn/house build, etc). $6500 now, he delivers, we fix issues (I'll get to the main one), we pay final $6k in 5 months or he takes machine back keeping 6500 and repairs we've done. I've got a few Aces in the hole on this too - my son is a machinist, his brother-in-law is a Cat mechanic for a local construction company, and his former neighbor and good friend is an over-the-road Cat diesel mechanic.
Here's the machine's current status: starts and will run well. Engine overhaul about 2000 hrs ago. Decent undercarriage, overall probably 50%. Nice cab, clean, front window broke out but he has the replacement glass. Has some hyd leakage at cylinders - needs seals but you could still work with if you kept up with fluid. It started, no fluid used, on a 30 degree day - took some good cranking - but started. Son has driven/worked it.
Main issue: Here we go!!!! The engine will sit and idle fine. When you run it, if you throttle back fast or work it just right, it will start coughing and appears to flood itself out. It may cough and spit a while before recovering. Sometimes this is more consistent than others as I understand it. Owner at first thought he had a bad valve so he parked it for a month or two (someone else was running it so it was coughing/spitting consistently). Recenty, he had to move it but then it ran fine. And then it ran fine when my son ran it although he did get it to experience it's coughing fits as he worked it. My 'guys' (son/brother in law/neighbor) current take is pretty wide ranging - bird's nest in intake, injector bad, gasket leak, etc. Son says fuel supply good but hasn't checked individual injectors.
So, a couple questions:
First, thoughts on the coughing issue? Yeah, pretty vague symptom description so far but should have more after it gets delivered this weekend. Mainly wondering if anyone's had/seen a similar type issue before.
Second, thoughts/advice on other 'things we should check' while we are getting this fuel issue resolved? We are going to pull turbo, fix broken bolt, and check turbo internals out with it off. We'll get those exhaust issues, get the window in, and generally clean, lube, and check track tension. Anything else you'd recommend before we start really working this machine. Thx in advance!
 

fest777

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2019
Messages
129
Location
shaky city
Occupation
opp/mecanix
sounds like a injector,if it has lines from pump too injector you can crack one at a time and narrow it down to the bad cylinder,is this a 3204 engine, i had one start to miss fire on a 3304pc and it sounded like either was in the intake, was banging and poping could barely kill the engine ,just wanted too keep running ,one cylinder getting way to much fuel and white smoke,narrowed down to #1 cylinder.shut it down restarted 3 days later no pop and bang. replaced injector all is good now
 

greg580b

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Messages
53
Location
St. Louis MO
Thx Fest777. Yep, 3204 engine. Does sound similar. I was kind of hoping something simple like this! Will crack lines early on in our tests and see. If I remember correct, my son did say something about white smoke.
 

Nige

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Messages
28,981
Location
G..G..G..Granville.........!! Fetch your cloth.
First thing I'd think of doing is drain the cr@p out of the fuel tank (I'll bet nobody has opened the drain valve at the bottom of the tank in years) then prove the fuel lines are clean right from the tank to the FIP, paying special attention to any oddball fittings, etc that you come across - there might be a small screen in a banjo bolt somewhere. New fuel filters and see what that does for you.

Second - and the best investment you could make. An Operation & Maintenance Manual. They can be downloaded from the internet in pdf format for less than $50.
 

greg580b

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Messages
53
Location
St. Louis MO
Thx Nige and Dave. Yeah, the fuel system in these old dogs gets ignored. Good advice and I'll give it a good end to end cleaning. Filters, including fuel, looked fairly recent but good to start fresh and know exactly how old they are. Hoping not to jump into valves if I don't have to Dave. Can you fill me in on why I should go there right off the bat?
 

Dave Neubert

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2018
Messages
1,649
Location
Monroe NC
I had a 3208 in a tractor that would skip the owner replaced everything he could think of and finally I bought it I adjusted the valves and the problem went away they were a tad tight. they are easy to adjust put the timing pin in TDC adjust the closed ones turn it 360 till pin engages and adjust the rest cat has a chart that shows the ones to adjust
 

greg580b

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Messages
53
Location
St. Louis MO
THX Dave. Good to know. We'll give 'em a look as we go over it. Don't know if it'll show up this weekend. Weather going to crap again (light snow and cold). I got a chicken and egg problem - I need this machine to build a barn so I can fix this machine! :) We also got a Case TF300 trencher that needs a bunch of work. It was given to us after it sat in a field for 10 years. We picked up a spare engine for it so hope to get that Wisconsin two banger running this weekend too .... but we can work on that in the canopy shelter with some heat! BTW, still hoping I can get the Op and Maint. Manual for the 953 for free (hoping owner has one or Cat mechanic has one in their shop). I did find a site to download for $50 (heavy-equipmentmanual.com) so will do that if I gotta. Looking forward to getting this 953 on site and running sweet. Been beating my ASV posi track silly trying to do what I need a 953 for. Thx again for the tips and I'll post how it goes.
 

greg580b

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Messages
53
Location
St. Louis MO
Well, the 953 showed up at the farm yesterday. Started fine, unloaded, and we drove it the 600 or so yards to it's parking spot. The hydraulics are great - other than the minor seal leaks on the bucket and arm cylinders. It drove and steered well at speeds from very slow to fast. Bucket and arms move nice and smooth. Undercarriage good but the tracks do need to be tightened up a bit. Plenty of travel left, rollers and sprockets good. The exhaust is gone. Literally! Had a muffler but the flex pipe from the turbo to the exhaust completely gone. Took the muffler off but there's not even enough metal left at the base to weld a new flange on. So, new muffler and flex pipe needed. Starter is missing top bolt and is loose so gotta get that tightened up. Fluids good and all filters we checked were in great shape and clean. There's a leak in the manifold gasket but we'll get that when we get to the turbo!
Now the real issue! When we got to the parking spot and throttled down it belched major white smoke. Strong oil burning smell. Fortunately our over the road Cat mechanic stopped by and helped take a look. His first comment echoed Nige - to clean out the fuel system. He thought the fuel/injectors sounded fine as it idled and ran up however ... We took the cold side pipe off the turbo and - it's a mess. Shaft has noticeable side to side movement. Blades (from what we could feel) seem OK/intact but there was a pool of oil in hot side of turbo and oil leaking in several spots. Looks like gaskets, seals, and bearings are shot on the turbo. Bottom line is I'm in for a new (rebuild or reman) turbo. I'll search other posts for more turbo info but would appreciate thoughts on sources, etc. Obviously there is a wide range between lowest and highest cost options. I'm leaning towards 'middle of the road' options but, again, I'd appreciate thoughts/advice.
Other big issue is the bucket. It's seriously cracked behind the teeth/cutting bar (but the teeth/cutting bar is in good shape!). Looks like we'll just pull the bucket and take it into my son's workplace. They've got a great weld shop and the bucket is going to need serious work to repair the crack and fix/beef up the skid plate areas. Pins and bores are, for the most part, OK. They kept things well greased up.
Final thing I could use some advice on - I need to replace the front window. Have the glass but I need the seal that goes around it. Any idea on sources? Is there a standard size or do I need to measure thickness of metal around window and thickness of glass and size the gasket?
I'll try to add a few pics later. Again, thx for the advice/thoughts in advance!
 

Nige

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Jun 22, 2011
Messages
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G..G..G..Granville.........!! Fetch your cloth.
Regarding the rubber for the screen, do you have a windshield company local to you that cuts & fits laminated glass.? They would likely have the rubber (and the locking strip) available in rolls.

The turbo I'd go for a replacement rather than try to repair what you have if it's in as bad shape physically as it sounds from your description.

Re fuel system. You have to start somewhere. Do that by ticking the boxes of all the easy stuff that everyone else forgets to do - drain the tank, clean the screens, look for banjo bolts that might have a mesh in them, do a proper disassembly & cleanout of the water separator, etc, etc. And if you want to know why you do that, take a look at the photos in post #3908 of this link - https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/picture-thread.79079/page-196
 

Bluox

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
1,960
Location
WA state
And the money pit opens.
Pull the air cleaner and you will see why the turbo is sucking oil.
Fix the exhaust system.
Before you start tearing into the fuel system change fuel filters and try out the machine.
Good luck
Bob
 

greg580b

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Messages
53
Location
St. Louis MO
THX Nige. Yeah, we're going to follow post #3908 and fully clean fuel system. Any thoughts on just replacing turbo cartridge (basically center core of turbo including both blades) vs entire turbo? The casings (which I assume are about the only things you reuse with the cartridge) are in descent shape. Cost savings is about $300-400.
 

greg580b

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Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Messages
53
Location
St. Louis MO
Prepping to remove bucket, clean fuel system, and take off turbo this weekend. Getting parts has been frustrating. The shop.cat web site does not recognize my machine's serial number! I chatted with them and did get a nice email back that 'it'll take several weeks to get it into the system .... but they may never get it in because it is so old'!! The "dealer" shopping web site DOES recognize my serial number but all it does is kicks you over to the local dealer to buy your parts. Not very convenient or cost effective. Very frustrating. Just figuring out what filters my machine takes - via the web - is nearly impossible or takes hours. Never had this issue with any other equipment. Anyway, I've ordered up ALL manuals - service and parts so that should help. Just frustrating to have to spend so much $ on info that should be readily available on the web. Pardon the vent! :)
 

greg580b

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Messages
53
Location
St. Louis MO
Not sure what SIS is Dave. Tried my number in shop.cat.com again today. No go. Works fine in parts.cat.com. The Parts site just isn't as friendly as the Shop site - and surely doesn't have the same prices. BTW the Shop site has some good prices on filters and such right now. My 0714 filter is only $14. Way cheaper than I've found it elsewhere. I'll check out the offroadeq.com site tonight. THX Nige. Time to bundle up and head to the farm. 20 degrees out so gonna be a cold start. Hopefully we'll get above freezing this afternoon as we wanted to pressure wash things down before we tear into everything.
 

Nige

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Jun 22, 2011
Messages
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Location
G..G..G..Granville.........!! Fetch your cloth.
shop.cat is not designed for parts ordering as far as I can see
As you have discovered parts.cat.com/ will take you to your local dealer 9unless you set it up otherwise, and this is possible)
I strongly suggest that you create an account with Offroad Equipment.

Here are the filters to get you going until you have a Parts Manual available. (BTW you can download a pdf version from the same Cat web site mentioned in post #9 above. Search for SEBP1431)

1R-0714 - engine oil
8N-5317 - Air primary
9S-9972 - Air secondary
1R-0750 - fuel spin-on
9M-2341 - fuel primary screen (washable)
1R-0722 - hydraulic filter (tank)
8G-8287 - cab filter
 
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