Mrclean1985
Active Member
I do not have a wiring diagram. I assuming they are hot since they come out of the harness that is attached to the positive terminal on the battery.
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2000 JCB 214e series 4 Won't start
- Thread starter Mrclean1985
- Start date
stinky64
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purchase or download the service manual for your machine and stop guessing...they're worth their weight in gold and make your life much easier....
Mrclean1985
Active Member
A guy sent me a pdf file service manual that I'll look over on Monday when I get to work.
stinky64
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Atta boy, you'll be glad you did..over the years I don't care if it was a Chiltons manual for a pickup or car repair, an old manual for tractor fixin' or even a stinkin' riding mower if you have "the book" the knowledge is at your finger tips....
Mrclean1985
Active Member
You don't need a wiring schematic to figure your slow starting. You have ground and positive from the battery. I assume your positive cable goes direct to the starter. Where does the negative battery cable go? It should be bolted on the engine block.
And my last two jcb used 29h size battery.
And my last two jcb used 29h size battery.
stinky64
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The voltage drop and the red hot wires indicate that something is wrong with his wiring,he also stated that several people have hacked into the works before,and from the picture he posted it looks like he's got connectors hacked into his connectors... wiring diagram may help isolate previous indiscretions.....just saying.......
stinky64
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Mrclean, you didn't maybe accidentally pinch a wire when you put the starter or some other part back on did ya? some kinda short is usually what makes wires glow....P.S. if you're going to pursue the mechanic thing,learn how to decipher the diagram....not shaming,just a suggestion...Stinky
Last edited:
Tinkerer
Senior Member
You don't need an expensive AGM battery.
A 1000cca lead acid would cost about $100.00 at any autoparts store.
Just sayin.
A 1000cca lead acid would cost about $100.00 at any autoparts store.
Just sayin.
It's not that complicated. Every engine with a starter has a positive cable to the starter solenoid and a ground cable to the engine block. He has not answered where his negative battery cable goes or where it's bolted to. If his engine ground is off, he may grounding thru the bunch of yellow wires, hence getting hot and not cranking good.
edgephoto
Senior Member
Instead of just throwing parts at this concern why not diagnose what is wrong?
First measure the voltage at the battery when cranking. If under 10.5volts or so your battery is no good. If at or above this replacing your battery is not going to solve your problem.
If the battery voltage during cranking is normal then measure the voltage drop to your starter. Put the meter on the positive terminal and the starter positive connection, crank engine and note the volt reading. Do the same on the negative terminal and the starter body. If either of these are more than .5 volts you found your problem.
The fact you state the wires get hot proves you have unwanted resistance in the circuit. Measuring voltage drop is basic diagnosis for this type of issue. High current circuits with small unwanted resistance will be found by this method. Measuring resistance is not a good method. Use Ohms law and you will see a 2 volt drop in a 500 amp circuit is a tiny resistance that on a meter you would not suspect but you can see it using voltage drop.
First measure the voltage at the battery when cranking. If under 10.5volts or so your battery is no good. If at or above this replacing your battery is not going to solve your problem.
If the battery voltage during cranking is normal then measure the voltage drop to your starter. Put the meter on the positive terminal and the starter positive connection, crank engine and note the volt reading. Do the same on the negative terminal and the starter body. If either of these are more than .5 volts you found your problem.
The fact you state the wires get hot proves you have unwanted resistance in the circuit. Measuring voltage drop is basic diagnosis for this type of issue. High current circuits with small unwanted resistance will be found by this method. Measuring resistance is not a good method. Use Ohms law and you will see a 2 volt drop in a 500 amp circuit is a tiny resistance that on a meter you would not suspect but you can see it using voltage drop.
Mrclean1985
Active Member
The ground wire is grounded to the top of the engine. I had taken it off and cleaned it really well.
I took some time off for Covid leave back in March and they had this hack mechanic take over when I was gone and he out a 1000 cca battery in it. I wonder though if that battery is shot. I did do a load test on it and it passed.
I took some time off for Covid leave back in March and they had this hack mechanic take over when I was gone and he out a 1000 cca battery in it. I wonder though if that battery is shot. I did do a load test on it and it passed.
edgephoto
Senior Member
Just because you cleaned the connection does not mean the ground is good. Do the voltage tests I suggested. Three quick measurements and you will know what is wrong.
stinky64
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Where on top of the engine? On a rusty bracket? on something that is isolated by gaskets? like skata implied earlier the ground should be directly to the block..perhaps a spot where other grounds are connected.. maybe one from the frame to the block...
Tinkerer
Senior Member
Mrclean ;
You never answered jcb jeff's question in post # 3.
Which was simply -- is the battery (earth connection) ground connected to the engine block ?
I know you said that you cleaned the grounds.
He also asked if you moved the crowd (dipper) control lever while cranking the engine.
You didn't answer that, and it could make a significant difference in the cranking speed.
Again that simply determines if the hydraulic pump is putting an additional load on the starting motor while it is engaged.
You never answered jcb jeff's question in post # 3.
Which was simply -- is the battery (earth connection) ground connected to the engine block ?
I know you said that you cleaned the grounds.
He also asked if you moved the crowd (dipper) control lever while cranking the engine.
You didn't answer that, and it could make a significant difference in the cranking speed.
Again that simply determines if the hydraulic pump is putting an additional load on the starting motor while it is engaged.
edgephoto
Senior Member
Three simple voltage measurements and the suggested test with control lever all take less than five minutes total.
The voltage tests will rule out or prove there is a voltage supply issue.
By day I am a field service engineer for a major auto manufacturer. I never understand the refusal to perform tests to diagnose an issue vs. just guessing and changing parts.
My Cat was cranking real slow when I got her. In one minute I knew my issue was the ground cable not the connection. It had internal resistance causing a nearly 3 volt drop. A new cable and she cranked like a new machine.
The voltage tests will rule out or prove there is a voltage supply issue.
By day I am a field service engineer for a major auto manufacturer. I never understand the refusal to perform tests to diagnose an issue vs. just guessing and changing parts.
My Cat was cranking real slow when I got her. In one minute I knew my issue was the ground cable not the connection. It had internal resistance causing a nearly 3 volt drop. A new cable and she cranked like a new machine.
jcb jeff
Senior Member
Any 600 wire is and earth path so could be 600 or say 601 they are earths
Mrclean1985
Active Member
Sorry guys had to work on other equipment yesterday so I didn't have a chance to do any of the tests. I will preform the 3 tests today and return with what I find. Also the main battery ground does ground to the top of the engine block. I completely removed and and inspected the cable. No corrosion of any kind.
Mrclean1985
Active Member
Ok on the negative terminal with lead and other on the starter body the voltage was .5, jumped to .6 for a second. So does that mean my ground to the starter is bad?
You're only measuring .5v??
Also a cable may appear good, but could have internal corrosion on the connector ends.