Fix it or trade?

Not my field, but don't most mining dozers run narrow tracks....?

D6c10K said:

Are what you call greased chains the same as "dry chains"? The track shop has a set of dry ones (no lube) that they recommended if I were going to sell the machine.

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Dry is no seals as far as I'm concerned, or I guess it could be sealed but no lubrication. You'd have to ask.
Greased are usually used on excavators because of slower travel speeds and less travelling than a dozer. Can be used on dozers though.

mitch504 said:

Not my field, but don't most mining dozers run narrow tracks....?

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if you would call widths in the range 24-28" narrow I suppose the answer is yes.

Big thing with smaller machines is that invariably you see machines in LGP configuration (or non-LGP with wide shoes) working on hard ground. Nothing is going to take track pin joints out fast than that. Our yardstick was always to use the narrowest width of shoe that gave adequate flotation.

Nige said:

if you would call widths in the range 24-28" narrow I suppose the answer is yes.

Big thing with smaller machines is that invariably you see machines in LGP configuration (or non-LGP with wide shoes) working on hard ground. Nothing is going to take track pin joints out fast than that.

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Yep, that was my point, like Shimmy said, when he needs wide tracks, he's got to have them, and he can't take them off when he doesn't.

And yeah, I'd call 28" narrow under 250,000 lbs....

Greased tracks are just the old sealed tracks that dozers started out with. They have the Belleville washer springs which act as a seal to keep the material the tracks are running on out of the insides of the bushings. The grease acts as a lubricant if you run the machine all the time. If you park the machine for a long period of time, the grease can act as a glue and hold the link joints hard. SALT now days is real good about the seal technology and they usually last until the link loose the press fit on the pins and start to spread. The Caterpillar brand tracks for a long time were only better because the seals lasted longest. They didn't wear any better. You still see issues with the off brand stuff. Berco, Intertractor, ITM, Trex and all the rest still come up with a bad batch of chain from time to time. Wider pads do put more strain on the chain joints than narrower ones. They do not generally last as long even if running on soft ground. The primary failure is the spreading of the big ends of the links on the track pins and exposing the seals along with lessoning the tension holding them in place. Wide track dozers also have the track frames moved further away from the main frames of the tractors. That can also add to the strain somewhat on the tracks themselves.

John C. said:

The primary failure is the spreading of the big ends of the links on the track pins and exposing the seals along with lessoning the tension holding them in place.

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Agreed. That's why Positive Pin Retention (PPR) track links on the bigger dozers have been such a success - the links don't spread. What's amazing to me is that PPR is now available as far down the range as D5 tractors.

I didn't know that they made it available for smaller than a D8. Nice to know.

Thanks

So, what we have here it appears to me is the classic "6 one way, half a dozen the other" scenario. Yes, wide pads are harder on chains, but the seals are better than they used to be. The million dollar question is are SALT chains going to outlast greased chains to the point that the extra $1000 is absorbed? Too bad we don't all have that crystal ball in the basement.

I think "horses for courses" could also be an apt metaphor.
What works best in a 24/365 mining operation is not necesarily the best option for either a contractor machine working maybe 40 hours/wk and likely not the best option for a farm/hobby machine eihter.

All I can say is that SALT PPR chains will far outlast greased chains, and I mean far.

I will say all Cat SALT chains will outlast and deliver better cost per hour service in the dozer application than any sealed chain. I agree totally with Nige on PPR as well.

My D6C has 20" pads so not too wide.
Almost always run in soft ground.

D6c10K said:

My D6C has 20" pads so not too wide.
Almost always run in soft ground.

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18" is standard shoe. If you don't have sinking problems the narrower you can go on shoes the better it is on the chains.

I think I might have chipped in with this one before, a few years back I was on a wide track D6K slotting in sand. The sand ran round the blade so the edges of the pads were running on it and twisting the chains. This was with System One and after five weeks most of the pins were shot.

From what I've read not many like System One undercarriage. I went with SALT because it was only a couple hundred $$$ more per side. I wonder if a machine that used infrequently and sits outside all it's life is more susceptible to dry links seizing? They certainly can squeak a lot more than SALT tracks.

Dry chains are just that, no lube, greased chains are greased on assembly with seals on each end of the bush but over a period of time the grease will leach out.

Nige said:

Based on his commentsabout twisting, etc, I'd be interested to know how that works in mining. The dozers almost never run on level ground yet SALT joints losing lube are almost unheard of these days.

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About 25 years ago I was working with a communication company installing optic Fibre cable. They D10n, D9ns and 2 375 Komatsus doing the prerip About every 2 weeks a Cat fitter was out fixing leaking or dried out pins. The Komatsus were never touched. I understand that improvements could have made in 25 odd years.

Tones said:

About 25 years ago I was working with a communication company installing optic Fibre cable. They D10n, D9ns and 2 375 Komatsus doing the prerip About every 2 weeks a Cat fitter was out fixing leaking or dried out pins. The Komatsus were never touched. I understand that improvements could have made in 25 odd years.

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Where to start.? PPR, deeper hardened links, improved pin/bush joints, improved seals, different lubricant all within the last 20 years that I can remember. Probably other improvements also. This afternoon I asked around the shop when was the last time a D10 lost a pin joint here due to a seal failure and nobody could remember without digging into machine history files..... which I guess shows how infrequent it is.

Just lash out and get one of these. https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/caterpillar-d6gc.86110/

You might need to smuggle it in under a coat or something

Well thats interesting.... my D6C 10K has 24 inch tracks and I was thinking that was the narrow. Silly me.

davo727 said:

Well thats interesting.... my D6C 10K has 24 inch tracks and I was thinking that was the narrow. Silly me.

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Indeed. A 150,000lb D10 can run on 24" wide shoes..........