Pricing excavation work.

Well, I realize I may only get the "price what you are comfortable with" answers, but ask I shall. I am looking mostly for equipment for personal and farm use only. However, I have realized older and good wont happen. People don't take care of stuff anymore. For this reason I may need to get newer and do some work to help pay for the large expense. I am mostly looking at 25-35T excavators. I also have a D7 dozer.

I do math for a living so I have no issue working numbers but I have no idea how people quote, and what wage is typical. I realized in manufacturing, people just straight up lied to me, and that is fine. Told me a machine should make $60/hr..... At that rate, if anything on a machine broke, I would never afford to fix it, and that is on OLDER equipment!

What I learned was to determine how quickly people pay off equipment, and that gave me a MUCH bigger clue!

I would be selective in work I take, reduce liability, and focus on jobs that optimize my equipment. I am just trying to figure out where the optimal zone will be, and what that rate might look like to see if this would make sense.

Holy $hit. Not even sure where to start. You say *excavation work*. Are you talking site prep, road work, underground utilities, basements/footings, or something else? What kind of experience do you have in any aspect of this venture, whether it's running the machines or how to do the jobs? While most on here will applaud you for trying, it will be very hard to get into the dirt business with no background whatsoever.

Ah, I guess from my first post, it would seem I am the FNG with a new hammer....Not quite the case. Whole family in heavy construction, I worked in the industry many years, ran everything from a sod cutter to a D9. Did a lot of municipal work on new concrete bridge overpass and storm sewer builds.

I have an engineering and manufacturing education, and even way back as a rookie in construction, I was a key asset to figure out how to build a sand wall with a 1.5mi radius and 3% lay back for a bridge. I own a total station, a laser, and a host of other tools. I am sort of a swiss army knife I guess.

No, I am not green to construction, but I am not sure where my assets are best used. Pond work seems to bring out about anyone with an old digger. However, I certainly won't saddle up for high pressure municipal work right now. I probably have connections to get it, but I am mostly looking for basic digging work. Probably not even basements either. Road drainage, culverts, that sort of thing maybe. I am not afraid of complex or high precision jobs, but life (relationships) has stresses me to a point that I no longer want drama in my life.

In a nut shell, I was key on the biggest bridge in the biggest city in our state, and I have also manufactured aerospace parts for the biggest commercial jet in the sky, but life has slapped me hard enough that I don't desire the stress anymore, and I am not even old. I'd rather sit in my machine and dig a simple hole. It will come in handy some day.

Best gauge is local bidders charges. Most charge out the gate to back into the gate for machines by hour so a hour one way haul becomes two hours of payday and they can squib a bit on per hour charge padding the ends. Size of machines dictates cost per hour where the operator is at times a second expense per hour. Last quote I received here was $110/hour for a25t excavator for pond work, extra rate for Loader or dozer if required. Some shops set a base rate for 'A Pond impoundment' but then tack on extras during construct for add ins the owner requests as work proceeds. Being able to finish grade and compact a site for a slab or foundation work is a art in and of itself, a crew load is another aspect.

Newer doesn’t mean trouble free . I’ve been on many jobs with new machines that broke down and took a week or more to fix . This is where rental is a plus.

I fail to recognize how you think being a small business owner is a low stress occupation. If you just want to dig holes without stress you may want to get a job for some outfit. The stress of accounts payable overshadowing accounts receiveable is far greater than some boss chewing my rear, and nothing has ever stressed me more than figuring where I'm going to get grocery money to feed the kids.

25 to 35 ton machines dont just hire out for easy jobs around here if you pull that kind of iron out it's going to be a decent dollar size job a 35 ton machine is a grand to mob in and another to mob off

It's a matter of what you want today do but small excavating buissness is not low stress in my opinion if you want easy dig a hole and move on get a backhoe and hire out by the hour

a 35 ton machine is a bit of overkill to put an 18 inch pipe in a ditch? Big to move, big on fuel, needs lots of space to work. We have 35, and 50 ton machines, but most stuff like that is done with a 14 ton. We have 3 145 swing master Linkbelts that are great for that kind of work. Even the zero swing 235 will do in a pinch, but I couldn't imagine floating a 350 machine in for something like that. That being said, we have been having great luck with Linkbelt machines. We have 2 350s, a 235, and the 3 swingmaster, 145s. The 350s are only a year old, but so far so good. The other 4 have been trouble free so far. One of the 145s is a 2015, and has been as reliable as the older Maytag washers

Appreciate all the input guys, including the business move! I realize the stress in taking on work. Have been a business owner for 15yrs but this sector may take a little learning. It is looking like I might end up with a 27T machine. I realize that size class can be hard to figure into some jobs. I see lots of guys "make it work" with smaller machines, where a bigger machine is really better suited. I assume so they can subsidize the moving costs and cheaper parts.

I myself make the smaller machine work for bigger jobs cause if your small the key is variety to staying really busy in our area so I make my 314 do jobs that I really need a 325 for but that is 1 out of 10 otherwise I couldn't use a 325 on 5 out of 10 jobs so my investment returns better having less machine even if I have to work more hours to accomplish a job

Eventually we will step into a 25 ton size machine but for the most part I am not missing out on most work for lack of a bigger machine

The problem with a 27 ton machine is you can't do residential basements, and it's too small for a lot of commercial digs, it's a awkward in between size for a lot of jobs. It's also a lot more coin to move, then a 20 ton, but in many places the same as a 30 ton. For my 210 I do some jobs for $1500 if I leave the yard with it and i'm back in under 7 hours. Other then that depending on the job I quote it at $500 moving each way, $175-250/hr depending on the type of work. Depending on how much you will use the machine, how much money you have to buy one, and how mechanically inclined you are you can get a good hoe for $60-130k. IMO somewhere around the 8-10 year old mark with 4000-7000 hours is where a good value is. Old enough to not pay an insane amount, new enough to still be very reliable.

Totally agree on the point of it being a headscratcher to go into earthworks thinking it will be low stress. Even when things are good, there's still always the stress of wondering if you'll have enough work, and when you're going to get paid. The only part that's helped me a lot is building a good safety cushion so if I have no work I don't have to worry about covering bills.

AzIron said:

I myself make the smaller machine work for bigger jobs cause if your small the key is variety to staying really busy in our area so I make my 314 do jobs that I really need a 325 for but that is 1 out of 10 otherwise I couldn't use a 325 on 5 out of 10 jobs so my investment returns better having less machine even if I have to work more hours to accomplish a job

Eventually we will step into a 25 ton size machine but for the most part I am not missing out on most work for lack of a bigger machine

Click to expand...

The jobs I find the most annoying are the one's my 210 is too big for, not the one's where it's a bit small and a 250 could do it a bit faster.

Well, as I said, this machine has work to do for me at the shop. This is not a loan situation, and no kids will go hungry if it doesn't work, but I can really only justify the large price by offsetting with a little for-hire work. Hate to say, but I would probably cherry pick any work I can find. I am not willing to hurt the machine beating on rocks or similar. Most of our local soils are easy clay/loam digs. I am trying to think about certain jobs, but it really does seem that they can get done with a smaller machine. Septics, lagoons, drainage, etc. Hard to factor.

Not entirely sure on brush clearing. That does take serious machines and my D7 can help, but I find that work to be very taxing on machines.

It has been really hard because I would say 80% of the work does not even come down to dirt moving, it comes down to lifting capacity for me as it's primary use, and the height and extension. Really for most work, a small rubber track would be the deal. Some might say I need a crane or tele, but it is really hard to compete with a machine that can lift 27K, go 30ft in the air, and dig. And with aux hydros, I can find other stuff for it to do.....

AzIron said:

Eventually we will step into a 25 ton size machine but for the most part I am not missing out on most work for lack of a bigger machine

Click to expand...

Take what you win and run what you brung - that motto has served me well over the last 27 years.

At the end of the day it's all about putting food on the table with what ya' have.

Minimize the risk= minimal reward. All business is competitive. Seems just when you think you can cherry pick the nice ones ,the new guy shows up and lots of time hes good,just has a payment to make. I know ive been the new guy, now im the old guy and I still have take jobs that make you shiver if you want to see some cash out of them.Its a way of life to live with the ups n downs.

A couple suggestions that i recommend,is to put a rock clause and a water clause in every contract just to protect your butt. I have worked with MANY contractors that were hurt big time because they didn’t have one.

Bls repair said:

A couple suggestions that i recommend,is to put a rock clause and a water clause in every contract just to protect your butt. I have worked with MANY contractors that were hurt big time because they didn’t have one.

Click to expand...

Without a doubt. Also add "No undercutting of unsuitable soils included", "No import of structural fill" and "no topsoil import". My favorite contract term is BY OTHERS.

It can be pretty hard to pick and choose the jobs you want if other contractors are also bidding on them, especially if they have a more appropriately sized machine. That's why you have to take the good with the bad. Bigger contractors will take on small jobs at less profit just to keep their guys working when things get slow. A long time contractor with a good reputation could probably do it as semi retired but you'd need 25+ years to build that reputation. Owner/operator is hard and and can be a lot of stress. You have to do the jobs you have, look at other jobs you want to bid on, collect payments, order and pick up parts, do repairs and maintenance, pay bills, reschedule jobs due to inclement weather etc. I agree if you just want to dig holes and have less stress, work for someone else.

I have read this a couple times and I am not yet able to wrap my head around what is trying to be accomplished. The work wanted is road drainage and putting in culverts, but a 27t machine is wanted for lift capacity, but I am not sure what is being lifted requiring that much ass. Looking for pickup work with low stress, but with a 27t machine. I am not sure that kind of easy work is very easy to find, but maybe it exists there. I just sense the OP is looking to justify buying this size machine for whatever reason. I don't quite think that machine makes a lot of business sense in what has been shared here, but you have experience in the field so maybe your able to see things there that most everyone else on here cannot. To the OP, you want it, can afford it, so buy it and don't try and justify it 'cause I don't think that it likely can be easily justified up front. Get and see what you can make out of the purchase and if it doesn't work the way you want it to, sell it. Like you said, the kids wont be going hungry in the mean time. Sometimes it is fun to roll the dice and make something out of nothing, especially if you have money to play around with.

I was quite stressed when I pecked out this thread. I have realized now that this is just something I will have to figure out on my own. I think my situation is probably too much to peck out on the net.