BELAZ 450 ton dump truck specifications released along with a model of the truck!!!

Gosh how can I block this person? I don't wanna waste my time anymore on this bs troll

Upd.
Oh there is ignore option, nice

I'm a troll because I question if the mining world wants a 450 ton truck from Belaz or anyone else for that matter? I'm sure Cat, Liebherr and Komatsu have done extensive studies to see what size of trucks the market wants. There would be a lot of factors to consider.

Well Jewish I find your posts interesting. Like you say there are lots of manufactures in other countries (ie China) who produce more equipment than half the ones we know of North America combined and the majority have never heard of them.

If a company can build a machine that fills the need in their market then that’s great. Not every country needs a haul truck with a tier 4 engine, hyd boarding ladders, autonomous ready, lights that flash when you don’t buckle your seat belt, 6 coffee cup holders and an IPhone charger !

Now I don’t think the Cat engineers are losing sleep over this 450 T offering but that was not its purpose. If it can be produced and sold into its niche market then good on it. If we all thought the same the world would be a boring place. If any of the big haul truck manufactures walked around this one I’m sure they would find a new idea or take away.

Welder Dave said:

I'm sure sites like Syncrude would be very interested in higher capacity trucks.

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Not really, ground conditions are not conducive to heavier trucks. Couple that with the fact that shovels to match the higher payload rating of the trucks efficiently are not currently available, and the oilsands will most likely be happy sticking with what they have now.

alco said:

Not really, ground conditions are not conducive to heavier trucks. Couple that with the fact that shovels to match the higher payload rating of the trucks efficiently are not currently available, and the oilsands will most likely be happy sticking with what they have now.

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Those are likely some of the reasons why Cat and others aren't producing a larger truck. Kind of the same reasons Cat never tried to make a similar dozer to a Komatsu 575. I know the loading shovels in the oilsands are fitted with special extra wide shoes.

In a hard rock mine, the ground conditions wouldn't be an issue, and they make larger shovels than they use in the oilsands for solid ground conditions. But the biggest issue, is the dead mining market. Also, there's a whole lot more differences to standard shovels, than just the wide pads on the oilsands machines.

The largest hydraulic shovels are in the oilsands. They also have some of the largest electric shovels. There are some bigger shovels like the P&H 5700XPA but only a few were produced. Syncrude helped develop the O&K RH400 which was the largest hyd. shovel at the time. There have been even larger hyd. shovels since that are in the electric shovel range as far as capacity. -40 operating conditions are a major consideration for shovels working in the oilsands. Oilsands is also extremely abrasive. I worked in a shop that made the chromium carbide overlaid pipe for the oilsands slurry at Syncrude. Making spare pipe just for Syncrude kept them busy. There's a few other companies doing the overlay pipe now. I read a few years ago that the largest concentration of mining machines in the world is at Syncrude. I believe they have the largest fleet of Cat 797's in the world. They used to make a million profit a day but I bet that's down with current state of affairs.

There are examples of the largest hydraulic shovels all over the world now, not just in the oilsands. But the rope shovels are still larger. They have two sizes smaller than the largest currently available rope shovels. Komatsu has two models larger than what is available for the oilsands, and Cat has one size larger. Cat claims the oilsands version has the same capacity as their largest shovels, but it in fact is smaller in it's weight rating for the amount it loads.

The largest concentration of mining equipment is in the oilsands, but not at Syncrude. Syncrude has two mines, while there are 7 other mines in the region. Again, the same proves true for the 797 population. The region hosts the largest population, but not Syncrude.

Syncrude was/is the largest oilsands operation. Not sure if a bunch of others have been combined. The largest hyd. shovels may operate in other parts of the world but they were originally designed and used in the oilsands. The 797 was designed with the oilsands in mind and that's where the first one went. Was reading it was still operating in 2018 with more than 130,000 hours on it. Curious how many hours are on the Belaz 450 ton truck and what the expected life is? I have stated the Belaz could be a great truck but after 7 years why are there no orders for it? I think that's a reasonable question and doesn't make me a troll for asking.

Your information is very dated. Syncrude has been surpassed quite some time ago as the largest. I would know, I've worked there for 16 years.

As I said before, the severe downturn in the mining industry over the past several years would play a very large roll in why there is no demand for a 450 tonne truck right now. Incidentally, it's 450 tonnes, not tons. It would be just under 500 tons.

Another thing to consider, is since there is currently no perfect match for loading tools, it's not as efficient to run bigger trucks. If you went to bigger trucks, you would need bigger shop space to fit them in, something we had to go to with the 797s and Liebherrs. Your roads would have to be widened, your dump dozers would have to be increased in numbers or in size. There are many factors as to why there is no current need for larger trucks, but most of the reasons centre around the fact that mining is in a slump, and has not picked up to former levels of material demand.

Once you see the world economy picking up, and mining moves to the next boom cycle, you will most likely see an increase in equipment size. But at the same time, an increase in automation.

Automation is where current cost savings are being found. So it factors into why a larger truck is not currently in demand.

Have I answered your reasonable question? It's not the question that is making you appear aggressive to others, it's the apparent attack on a certain company. I have no horse in this race, and couldn't honestly care less if the truck is a smashing success or an abysmal failure. It's an interesting concept, and they are slowly working at it, which is neat to see.

I never said it wasn't an interesting design or wasn't a good truck. All the factors you mentioned such as needing larger shovels to match its capacity and better roads play a part as does a down turn in mining. Cat did an extensive analysis on this and that's why they haven't produced a larger truck. Maybe Belaz should have done more research on if a larger truck was right for the market at the time or in the near future. Building the worlds largest truck is a remarkable achievement but if there is limited interest in it kind of defeats its purpose. I think Jewish is taking it a little too personally. It's possible it's ahead of its time. All I can go by is that in 7 years only 1 truck is working in a mine. I think everyone is hoping the worlds economy improves.

I don't know if automation is the answer. Syncrude has tried everything from bucket wheels to draglines and long conveyor belts and concluded shovels and trucks is the most efficient way to move the material in their mines. Syncrude was the worlds largest producer of oilsands crude and had the largest mine in the world for many years and is still near the top in terms of production. They are the largest single holder of oilsands leases in the Fort McMurray area. Several of the worlds largest mining machines were developed for the oilsands and started life at Syncrude. As I said previously Syncrude helped develop the RH400 and took delivery of the first 797.

Syncrude is far from being close to the top, in fact, of the four companies that have active mines, they are third on the list. Suncor is the largest holder of oilsands leases, not Syncrude. Again, I'm not sure the source of the info you are posting as fact, but it is incorrect.

Incidentally, the change to truck and shovel were due to changes in the ore body, not that they were a more efficient setup.

Yes, Syncrude was instrumental in the development of the RH400, but strange thing, they no longer have any operating.

I'm not really sure what any of this has to do with the Belaz 450 tonne truck though...........

From the Gov't. of Canada website. Syncrude may not be the largest energy company but produced the most oil in 2019. Actually Koch Bros. had the most oilsands leases.

https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/science-dat...a-analysis/energy-facts/crude-oil-facts/20064

Several of the largest mining machines in the world were developed with the oilsands in mine. The RH400 has been surpassed by even larger shovels but several were sold in the oilsands. Originally produced by O&K but sold to Terex may be one of the reasons they aren't used anymore. Why don't you see other Belaz trucks in the oilsands? There's surely a market for large trucks in the oilsands. I think if the oilsands can support 797's they can likely support larger trucks.

The Belaz 450 tonne truck is a great achievement but at this stage hasn't been successful in procuring orders. Maybe a result of bad timing or a slow market but regardless of the reason there currently isn't a lot of interest in it. Maybe it's ahead of it's time. It could be similar to the Segway. Touted as the next latest greatest hi-tech invention but never became a commercial success. Doesn't mean it isn't a good machine or very capable. The market just isn't wanting it at this time. It would be fantastic to hear they secured orders for a dozen trucks. I don't know how long they are willing to wait for that to happen. Still don't know why it makes me a troll for questioning if the world is ready for a 450 tonne truck???

Welder Dave said:

It could be similar to the Segway. Touted as the next latest greatest hi-tech invention but never became a commercial success. Doesn't mean it isn't a good machine or very capable. The market just isn't wanting it at this time.

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Good point, it made me think of the Concorde and the Tupolev Tu-144. While they may have been great feats of engineering they just were not able to overcome the various problems they faced.

If you want to read about them try this site: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersonic_transport

The Condorde was an amazing feat of engineering. Chief consultant was Jim Floyd who was the head of engineering for the Avro Arrow. The Avro Arrow was killed by the gov't. but that's another story. I think fuel consumption was one of the Concordes downfalls but they did build 20 of them. The Airbus A-380 is another one. I read where Boeing is discontinuing the 747 because newer 2 engine planes are much more efficient. Sometimes bigger isn't always better.

Welder Dave said:

The Condorde was an amazing feat of engineering. Chief consultant was Jim Floyd who was the head of engineering for the Avro Arrow. The Avro Arrow was killed by the gov't. but that's another story. I think fuel consumption was one of the Concordes downfalls but they did build 20 of them. The Airbus A-380 is another one. I read where Boeing is discontinuing the 747 because newer 2 engine planes are much more efficient. Sometimes bigger isn't always better.

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Just my point, just because you can build something and even if it has advantages over others in the market it does not mean you will have a long term winner!

Welder Dave said:

From the Gov't. of Canada website. Syncrude may not be the largest energy company but produced the most oil in 2019. Actually Koch Bros. had the most oilsands leases.

https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/science-dat...a-analysis/energy-facts/crude-oil-facts/20064

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See, the problem here, is that you are quoting a source, that directly contradicts what you are claiming.

The link you provided clearly shows, that when you reference oil sands mining activity, the results are as follows:

CNRL 523 Mb/d
Suncor 454 Mb/d
Syncrude 354 Mb/d
Imperial 280 Mb/d

Now when you add in InSitu plants as well, the numbers go up for Suncor and Imperial:

Suncor 671 Mb/d
CNRL 523 Mb/d
Imperial 422 Mb/d
Syncrude 354 Mb/d

This is all very easily found if you look at the numbers.

Welder Dave said:

Originally produced by O&K but sold to Terex may be one of the reasons they aren't used anymore.

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Actually, 3 of the 5 RH400s that Syncrude had were built by Terex, so no, that had no bearing on the reason. If you want, you could also add that they were then sold to Bucyrus, and then Caterpillar, but that still has no influence in it.

Welder Dave said:

I think if the oilsands can support 797's they can likely support larger trucks.

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That's interesting, maybe you should tell the folks up here that, because we routinely have to light load our 797s to get them out of soft pits. Obviously adding another 200 tons to the loaded weight wouldn't affect things at all.

Incidentally Dave, I know things can come across online differently than intended, but I just want you to know, I'm not trying to be a prick. I'm just trying to get the correct information to you to help you understand the true nature of the industry and company you keep referencing.

Some of my info was from a few years ago. The fact is a lot of the worlds largest mining machines went to Syncrude going all the way back to the Demag H241 in 1978. I remember reading about it and 580 Payloaders in my neighbors construction magazines. Syncrude also had a big orange Champion 100T grader. My welding teacher's last job before becoming a teacher was building the Syncrude plant. He was a Tig welding specialist and worked on some of the more critical piping. He said the blueprints for the Krupp bucket wheel filled 3 Atco trailers. Syncrude was the largest oilsands operation for decades.

Getting back to this thread concerning the Belaz 450 tonne truck I don't know why Jewish is calling me a troll. If he's somehow involved with sales of this truck perhaps he would be better served by talking about some of it's unique features and benefits over other trucks other than it has a bigger payload. How does it compare to other large trucks, even though they are smaller, in terms of fuel usage, travel speed-loaded and unloaded, payload to operating weight ratio, tons per hour, tire wear and life, availability, component life, spare parts supplies, etc. This is all info that should be readily available for potential purchasers. One truck has been sold to date and there doesn't appear to be any data being released on how its field trials have been going. Thus it brings into question if the truck is living up to expectations. It is irrelevant if it is a machine from Belaz or any other manufacturer. The same questions would be asked if it was a new machine from Cat that wasn't attracting buyers after 7 years. It can't just be a slump in the mining market.

From the Forum Rules: Personal attacks of any kind on other members will not be tolerated. While disagreements in opinions and procedures may arise, they must be handled in a mature manner.

Name calling, like calling someone that disagrees with you a troll, is out of bounds. Let's keep that in mind.