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Where does old machinery go to die ?

mancavedweller

Active Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2012
Messages
38
Location
Melbourne, Australia
My wife would say too much of it finds its way to my house....I enjoy fixing things people have once forgotten and deemed unusable. It's saving them from the scrap pile I suppose.
I've got exactly the same disease. I seem to have a hopeless need to fix up machinery.

Some of it evidently goes to one of my customers every time they show up at an auction. Then they bitch and whine cause it costs so much to fix all the issues.
And the way you often have to pay for complete OEM parts, e.g. one of my excavator final drives went, so I stripped it down and found the central shafts in the planetary gear set had worn/bust male & female splines. So I call the dealer to find they only sell complete final drives at $4000 each. Contacted Bonfiglioli but they said they can't sell parts to me because the final drive has an OEM part number. To make matter worse I figured I need 2 new final drives because if one has worn out then the other one won't be far off failing (had the machine since new). This was for a 1.7 ton excavator and I was just an hourly hire contractor. I was ready to dump the business if I had to pay $8000 just to fix the final drives. Luckily I found an aftermarket parts supplier for final drives in the UK. They gave me the contact of a guy in Australia, who ended up ordering the parts out of Japan.
Had the same issue with the boom ram on the excavator. The chrome rod had snapped when the auger locked up between a couple of big rocks. Again they told me they could only supply a full ram, and it had to come out of the US (so latest model machine but no spare rams here). Would have cost me something like $1500. So I went and bought some chrome bar and machined up my own replacement hydraulic rod on the lathe. Maybe $50 in material for the repair.
Then an old lady drove in front of me on a main road. Truck written off and excavator slew ring and slew motor stuffed up. Went into the dealer for repairs and it was there 6 weeks because they said they didn't have spare parts anywhere in the world (honestly that's what they told me, in such a casual way). After a lot of screaming at the manager down the phone, he got the techs to pull parts off a new machine (but tried to charge me an extra $400 for that, more screaming ensued). That "repair" cost $9500 but lasted only a few weeks before the slew ring and slew motor pinion bust themselves up because the slew motor bolts had came loose and the rocking caused the gear teeth to start chipping and mixing in with the grease. Dealer would not admit any fault so I bought another slew ring, and got a gear manufacturer to machine a new pinion for the slew motor, and did the repair again all by myself in my back yard. Took me 4 days. The repair lasted 7 years of hard use until the slew ring & pinion wore out, then I replaced them again. During the repair I noticed the slew ring had the mounting holes in offset locations. No doubt this is so the slew ring cannot be rotated every so often, and thus the most used group of the teeth will wear out while the rest are hardly worn.
I vowed that if I ever design or rebuild a machine, I'll be using off the shelf hydraulic parts, etc, with standard mounts, and internal spares available. No more of this OEM, suck you dry crap. I learned the hard way why many guys buy a new machine, use it for so long then trade in and get another new machine. Definitely seems a way to go if you have regular business.
 

Vetech63

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2016
Messages
6,429
Location
Oklahoma
I drag them in . If they are not quite dead when they get here I put them out their misery. A lot of people seek used Cat parts.
You posted a pic of something in the recent past that was in your shop and all I saw in the background was parts galore! I just wanted you to know that I reported you to the “Hoarders” producers. :D;)
 

amunderdog

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Messages
297
Location
Sunbright,TN
I saw one 580K parked by the road in a fenced contractors lot.
Every time i would drive by i would wonder about pieces i needed. And marvel at the pieces that disappeared.
That carried on for several months until it was pretty much just the main frame.
Then it was gone.
Sort of a disappearing act?
 

Willie B

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,061
Location
Mount Tabor VT
Occupation
Electrician
Based in Melbourne, Australia.

Just wondering, where does machinery that's ready to be retired, go to. Cars go to car wreckers, but I've never heard of any such thing for machinery. Machines like excavators, bobcats, tracked dumpers, forklifts, industrial machines, etc.

I've got my own little shop with 3D cad, lathe, mill, cnc plasma, etc, so have some capabilities. I'm looking at making a purpose built machine, but rather than building from scratch would like to browse any such wrecking places to see what parts are available that I could use.

Based on my experience the salvage yards convert all the pieces to pure gold!
If I need a hydraulic cylinder, door, pump, engine block, torque converter, boom, bucket, etc. the cost is virtually the same as a new one.

A months long search for a hydraulic cylinder for a Dresser bulldozer failed. Three months into my search I had found hundreds of damaged cylinders, Shipped from California, three NOS manufactured with a pin hole off center requiring machining to make them functional, and after I had resigned myself to having a non angle blade, I found the component needed 300 miles away NOS.

Building a new machine it is cost effective to buy hydraulic cylinders, gearboxes, etc. new & build to fit them. A thumb cylinder for my backhoe cost $220. new. A similar sized from a salvage yard would have cost $1000. or more.
 

Flat Thunder Channel

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
378
Location
Ohio
Very true, it's often better to design around standard components. This allows the parts to be interchangable between different product manufacturers. I contemplated replacing the cylinders on my loader with a standard aftermarket cylinder when I found out the seal kits were $170 each. Use standard pumps, couplings, rod eyes, cylinders, valves, etc and you 'should' never run into obselete over priced parts that are hard to find. Leave the fancy custom work to the big production outfits.

All that said, I'd still like to convert that old 4cylinder ford engine into a whole house generator. Or maybe I should scrap it. I've been hoarding it away for years with the same thought
 

Willie B

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,061
Location
Mount Tabor VT
Occupation
Electrician
Very true, it's often better to design around standard components. This allows the parts to be interchangable between different product manufacturers. I contemplated replacing the cylinders on my loader with a standard aftermarket cylinder when I found out the seal kits were $170 each. Use standard pumps, couplings, rod eyes, cylinders, valves, etc and you 'should' never run into obselete over priced parts that are hard to find. Leave the fancy custom work to the big production outfits.

All that said, I'd still like to convert that old 4cylinder ford engine into a whole house generator. Or maybe I should scrap it. I've been hoarding it away for years with the same thought
You are kidding aren't you?
Oldest son inherited a belt driven 18 KW? generator with Wisconsin Air Cooled Twin. I love the Wisconsin twins. This one, being belt driven, and having no voltage regulator, or frequency governor is not a great standby generator. Frequency & voltage are sort of important.
 

Flat Thunder Channel

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
378
Location
Ohio
I never got through all the logistics on the generator side of things. I am sure it could be had with enough ambition and tinkering. It's the whole idea of making something out of nothing that makes it slightly interesting. As with many of my ideas they sometime take awhile (or never happen). If it ever did become a reality it probably would be a manually energized system. I have an old PowerChief generator. I'm relatively positive I could power all the necessities of my house if a emergency presents itself. Great little generator, but it sure doesn't have the reliability that a fuel injected engine offers. I always have to tinker with the carburator when it sits awhile.

I also knew an older farmer who smoked all his electronics once with a PTO driven generator head on a tractor. I think it was reversed polarity that took out his electronics. I definitely don't want to be in this situation. However having a reliable backup power source seems intriguing.
 

DMiller

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
16,573
Location
Hermann, Missouri
Occupation
Cheap "old" Geezer
Not hard to align a decent Generator, main aspect to watch is to have enough HP the supply does NOT Droop. most home outlet power is 120 not 110, 240 not 220 so need a GOOD voltmeter to watch the supply side 240 single phase so one leg does not get too loaded and lose volts. Basic Theory, V=IxR Volts lower Amps(I) go UP Resistance is the key so try to NOT load with a great deal of load bank as Heat, Refrigeration, larger loads need to be stepped on and off by demand then small loads can be used in between.

Power the House and Shop with a 10kw Welder Generator, dial in the volts to 240 no load then as noted turn on the refrigerators and freezers individually until cycle off go to next one. When all small loads are happy and cycled off cycle on heat or well, keep tank pressure up for basic toilet or drinking service, then cycle the breaker OFF, same for heat, get home warm and cycle breaker OFF. Can then watch news or weather reports, stage up laundry(IF necessary) etc. Not going to power the world off a small genny.
 

partsandservice

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
846
Location
Georgia
I was able to slide into town this morning unnoticed, at least by any show producers. Gotta find a brake valve for a skidder and work on a saw head. May be if I get greasy enough they wont recognize me as the boss of the heap. It is a standing rule that if someone other than another employee ask where I am the answer is, I don't know. So I should only have to worry about being spotted between the hoard and the house. But then again ; how much does the show pay?
 

Willie B

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,061
Location
Mount Tabor VT
Occupation
Electrician
Not hard to align a decent Generator, main aspect to watch is to have enough HP the supply does NOT Droop. most home outlet power is 120 not 110, 240 not 220 so need a GOOD voltmeter to watch the supply side 240 single phase so one leg does not get too loaded and lose volts. Basic Theory, V=IxR Volts lower Amps(I) go UP Resistance is the key so try to NOT load with a great deal of load bank as Heat, Refrigeration, larger loads need to be stepped on and off by demand then small loads can be used in between.

Power the House and Shop with a 10kw Welder Generator, dial in the volts to 240 no load then as noted turn on the refrigerators and freezers individually until cycle off go to next one. When all small loads are happy and cycled off cycle on heat or well, keep tank pressure up for basic toilet or drinking service, then cycle the breaker OFF, same for heat, get home warm and cycle breaker OFF. Can then watch news or weather reports, stage up laundry(IF necessary) etc. Not going to power the world off a small genny.
 

Willie B

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,061
Location
Mount Tabor VT
Occupation
Electrician
Generac offers stand alone load shedders for those unnecessary loads. If frequency falters, or voltage, those loads drop out for a time.
 

DMiller

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
16,573
Location
Hermann, Missouri
Occupation
Cheap "old" Geezer
Yes Load Shed is a handy way to go, easy enough to think on what needs to run and stagger on and off so do not challenge. Most auto run generation setups run a specified prioritized set of breakers so the entire house is not affected or established as a load.
 

DMiller

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
16,573
Location
Hermann, Missouri
Occupation
Cheap "old" Geezer
At the Nuke we had a system for Emergencies called ELSELS, Emer Load Shed and Emer Load Sequencer, worked on a Large Scale similarly. We had to memorize the sequences so if it had failed we had to be the Human sequencer. Have essentially done that at our home, marked certain breakers and have a small road map of what to cycle OFF and what to Sequence on at intervals and what can be used intermittently, for the Wife and Sis In Law when she is here should I not be. Gave them a run down on the generator and have detailed instructions should it come to they operating it.
 
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hosspuller

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2014
Messages
1,872
Location
North Carolina
Old industrial Machinery goes to the breakers. Liability is why. In the US, any workplace injury is assumed to be caused by the employer. If a lawyer can connect old machine that was sold to an injury, deep pockets pay regardless of time between sale and accident. Any modification becomes company engineering design. So, Company policy was to make sure any equipment was destroyed.

I accompanied an old process machine to the scrap yard. Called ahead to schedule their excavator mounted shear for it. I watched the shear cut it into pieces. I then wrote a note & signed it to be placed in the asset file.
 
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