International TD20 DVT573 V8 "flutters as turbo comes on"

History: This dozer was working fine when parked, then, sadly NOT USED for 5 years.


Got it running: Did all the new filters, oil etc... started and ran GREAT! But........

When you start to push or put a LOAD on the engine, as the turbo would normally build pressure (I presume) to increase power, it begins to produce a VERY AUDIBLE FLUTTER SOUND out the exhaust and power NEVER comes on.
Back off load and runs GREAT!
No other noises or irregularities.
With NO LOAD it will reach full RPM and run "smooth as silk".

What could be wrong?
Is it possible that from sitting the turbo or waste gate is doing this?
I don't know enough about turbo's to hazard a guess.

I DO NOT feel like it is internal to the engine.
It just doesn't sound that way. Sorry don't know how else to explain it.

Any help/direction would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

If it's 5 year old diesel, I'd drain it and fill with fresh. You can use up the old, just a little at a time mixed with fresh, or use it for fire starting, whatever.

Or, is there any screen, or blockage in the fuel line you've missed? How about air filter, or air intake?

Delmer said:

If it's 5 year old diesel, I'd drain it and fill with fresh. You can use up the old, just a little at a time mixed with fresh, or use it for fire starting, whatever.

Or, is there any screen, or blockage in the fuel line you've missed? How about air filter, or air intake?

Click to expand...

Fuel drained, new fuel, air filter clear and good, "other fuel blockage" I'll have to check flow to the pump I guess. Old fuel drained "easy" and seemed pretty good actually. But.... I can look at flow.

Check side play on the turbo, may have sludged some and after a few years carbon buildup has 'Grown' into place. Inspect for Exhaust turbine erosion.

What does the exhaust look like when it's fluttering? I'd try to run it a bit to get nice and warmed up and loosened up if you haven't. Even sit and rev it if you can't stand to try to work with the fluttering.

If you don't know, the easiest way to look at the turbo is to take off the intake plumbing, you can feel the intake turbine, it will have some play, but it should spin easy, not rub, be fairly clean, one piece etc.

That sounds like it's sucking air into the fuel. The pump won't respond correctly to load with air in the fuel. Did you get the new filters on right? Didn't happen to double up a sealing o-ring inside or leave one out? Also, check for floating plastic or some sort of trash in the fuel tank covering up the supply line at the bottom of the tank. A shop vac is your friend here.

Also, look for a signal line going to the injector pump that senses increased load...it may have a rubber diaphragm in a fuel ratio valve that has rotted or cracked, but more likely a piece of rubber hose losing boost at the signal line. Edit: Doesn't sound like this is happening.

I had one of these DVTI 573's in a 13 letter manure spreader Cabover in 1983. My brain has purged all info from it due to ownership stress of said power unit. Still mad. I didn't know how to work on them then though.

I'm watching this thread with interest.

Could be a crook injector that cuts out under load and causes it to miss, maybe also looking at the intake air system for blockages and if its got a muffler could be rusted out baffles in the muffler causing a partial blockage, try without the muffler. Thy don't have a waste gate that I know of.

You need to plumb in a gauge in to the fuel system and check it under a load 25-35 psi is about you need

I had one with a bad cam but it had a miss all the time. need to pull heads to get to lifters

If is ANYTHING Like the DV550 Highway engine, GOOD Luck. IH's Gift to Shop bay reservation in trucks. Nasty Mechanism called "Swirl Eliminators" in the Intake, basically Choke Plates and could be stuck Closed if still equipped.

I don't remember anything fancy in those engines but it has been many years since I've even looked at one let alone worked on them. I'm thinking fuel transfer or fuel injection pump to be most likely issue. Doing a boost pressure test while checking fuel pressure at the same time can narrow down the issue to injection pump or turbo charger. Bad injectors will slobber and make lots of smoke. Some partially stuck plungers in the injection pump will give you some potent headaches.

Update on symptoms, I will still need to do some of the member suggestions but wanted to share the following.
Maybe this helps point to a direction.

Here is the "scenario"... in detail...
Starts very EASILY and idles smoothly.
Advance to full throttle NO issues and runs smoothly.
Now, close the throttle and re-open quickly and repeat. JACK the throttle FULL OPEN / FULL CLOSED! (This is in neutral NO load).
Soon real soon, a pop or two and then several on opening the throttle and it gets WORSE the more you jack it.
STOP jacking it....
Throttle left full open, the popping clears in about 5 seconds and purrs like a kitten. (Screams like a V8 diesel!)

DEFINITIONS: What is the "popping".... it is coming OUT OF THE AIR BREATHER.
Put your EAR next to the intake can/screen and unmistakably the sound is "in there".
You can put your hand next to the intake screen and FEEL the reverse pulses!
Pop frequency is NOT as fast as engine RPM, I would say frequency of popping is about 2 times per second GUESSING!
How is this possible with a TURBO?

I thought if you really had a single cylinder MISSING on an 8 cylinder you would hardly hear it???? Is that wrong???
I do agree possible fuel issue but how can a TURBO be pulsing backwards out the air intake and why?
It's a thump/thud NOT a sharp crack or bang at all.

Exhaust: During this time puts out it's steady 'normal diesel" black smoke, I cannot see any pulsing. Doesn't mean it isn't there.

Just thought I would share this more detailed report of symptoms.
Any new ideas?

I'll get at some of the fuel pressure checks etc....
I'm 35 miles to location so not very quick to go get at it to do things.

Thanks everyone!!

Sounds like a exhaust valve not opening when the intake opens it will blow the pressure back into the air cleaner. pull valve covers check valve operation and clearances

As it does clean up I do not suspect a valve as that would have been beaten to a pulp by piston by now. Would fall back to fuel and fuel delivery, perhaps a collapsing or restricted fuel tank to pump supply line/hose (asking how old those are) return side relief check may be sticking open where is dumping transfer pump fuel pressure off. Loads of small crap can do this. Even transfer pump checks not seating could do this.

DMiller said:

As it does clean up I do not suspect a valve as that would have been beaten to a pulp by piston by now. Would fall back to fuel and fuel delivery, perhaps a collapsing or restricted fuel tank to pump supply line/hose (asking how old those are) return side relief check may be sticking open where is dumping transfer pump fuel pressure off. Loads of small crap can do this. Even transfer pump checks not seating could do this.

Click to expand...

I think I'll start simple by putting on a new feed line, Tank to Pump as it looks like it is original!
Thanks!

While have fuel shut off and lines off, inspect the Check valves in your supply system and the interface connections fittings If the hoses were decomposing the system could have slipped some by a fuel filter. Water in fuel or just time could have damaged check valve return springs.

Will do thanks!

Fuel system would not explain the popping back thru the intake. Put a gauge on the fuel system so you can find or eliminate one thing

From the description of the problem, it does sound like sticking intake valves. They would not be hit by the pistons simple because they close at the bottom of the piston stroke. It might take compression to make them seat completely.

A gas engine backfires from a lean mixture that's still burning when the intake opens up. I think this is most likely air in the fuel, fuel starvation, or possibly an injector issue. If it was mine, I'd run it off a five gallon plastic can of biodiesel, and let it sit at high idle until it's almost empty.