petepilot
Senior Member
looking for any and all info.pertaining to upgrading older diesels to meet t4 specs. jd-cat- cummins
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tier 4 upgrade for older engines
- Thread starter petepilot
- Start date
mitch504
Senior Member
Why???
Birken Vogt
Charter Member
It was tried on road trucks here in California and all I heard was horror stories with retrofit diesel filters. I don't know of any that worked right. The owners ended up selling out of them and getting into real T4 equivalent trucks. It is so many years since the T4 switch I would think this market would be drying up anyway but maybe somebody is still doing it.
petepilot
Senior Member
we`re not dealing with trucks. const equipt
Birken Vogt
Charter Member
I don't know of any construction equipment that got anything other than a full engine replacement under some program. When they did replace the engine their comment was it burns a lot more fuel than it used to. Bigger radiators, lots more heat rejected. More breakdowns of course and harder to work on. Same general idea, might have worked as a stopgap 10 years ago but nowadays it does not seem like it would be economical. I am not aware of any equipment operating nowadays with any retrofit engines or treatment systems and only a few trucks that are slated to get retired ASAP.
BSAA65LB
Senior Member
I was involved in quoting an engine swap to a T4 engine. It is cost prohibitive...
funwithfuel
Senior Member
There was , in the beginning, a company making exhaust after treatment systems as a retrofit for on/off highway. It was stand alone. Had its own little computer and fuel pump. We had a customer who was toying with the idea. At the time a certain percentage of your equipment had to be emissions compliant to be on a tax funded jobsite. I'm sorry, but I can't remember the vendor's name.
Truck Shop
Senior Member
BV is correct, When we were doing outside work a customer had Cummins retro fit two ISX engines to meet California emissions, both ended up a can of worms. The cost was out of site
and both rigs after about a year the systems were removed.
and both rigs after about a year the systems were removed.
Birken Vogt
Charter Member
Cummins seemed the biggest in the retrofit game, they had at least one company under their wing. I believe the come-backs were out of this world and quickly bankrupted the filter vendor(s).
I believe the trouble was that the engine injection systems had to be upgraded to a whole other level of cleanliness over even the original generation of HPCR injectors. In order to make the soot load something manageable. A lot of engines right up to the 2008 cutoff smoked a fair bit even though they met emissions targets for when they were built. You can't just put a filter onto a smoking engine and expect it to survive. It can't deal with that much soot. Plus the T4 engines have entirely different management routines to make the exhaust stream into something both thermally and chemically that keeps the filter burning most of the time. I remember when retrofits came out, thinking they could never work, and I think history has borne that out.
I believe the trouble was that the engine injection systems had to be upgraded to a whole other level of cleanliness over even the original generation of HPCR injectors. In order to make the soot load something manageable. A lot of engines right up to the 2008 cutoff smoked a fair bit even though they met emissions targets for when they were built. You can't just put a filter onto a smoking engine and expect it to survive. It can't deal with that much soot. Plus the T4 engines have entirely different management routines to make the exhaust stream into something both thermally and chemically that keeps the filter burning most of the time. I remember when retrofits came out, thinking they could never work, and I think history has borne that out.
Truck Shop
Senior Member
Totally correct BV, most of those engine components were not compatible with T4 emission components. Will not, can not work.
crane operator
Senior Member
petepilot, you may have some luck searching for VDECS which is CARB's way of saying add on exhaust kits. They give a listing of "approved" installers. Of course they don't update the list or reprint it to keep current. The way I read the rules, there are 3 different groups based on total hp of your fleet. Based on that hp # for your whole fleet, determines how much % of your fleet needs to be compliant, the smaller the company, the longer to be compliant.
https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/msprog/ordie...7.1364623228.1596227314-1554144467.1596227314
https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/msprog/ordie...7.1364623228.1596227314-1554144467.1596227314
crane operator
Senior Member
Truck Shop
Senior Member
I think before you spend too much time checking regs and installers, check the price.
petepilot
Senior Member
that was my first thought. we may have to lease some stuff
petepilot
Senior Member
DOC system built in canada.basicly an add on muffler type filter .supposed to work as a reducer .anyone heard of them?
crane operator
Senior Member
I think you would want to add up how much equipment you need to take into the job, see what HP category you as a company are in. Then see what you have to get up to as a percentage of your fleet. Lease what is cheapest to get up to that number, and bring in your own stuff that is specialized or more expensive/ harder to lease. Will the add on kits get you up to tier 4 final levels?
terex herder
Senior Member
If its mobile equipment I think your best bet is to sell what needs replaced and buy (or lease) what you need. The older equipment is worth good value to other contractors that don't have to hassle with emissions. Some even consider it worth more as a pre-emissions machine as uptime seems to be better. I doubt if you would ever be able to get any money spent on an upgrade out of the machine on resale, and thats even if it works properly.
crane operator
Senior Member
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...le-wildfire-california-officials-say-n1235711
Oh the irony...... Diesel engine malfunction - spewing from exhaust- starts wildfires.
Oh the irony...... Diesel engine malfunction - spewing from exhaust- starts wildfires.
Birken Vogt
Charter Member
I came across a series of roadside fires late one night last year. Called it in and heard over the scanner one of the responding fire engines passed a car shooting catalytic converter material out in the dark going the other way. But with 2 vehicles going opposite directions on a 50 mph road it was too hard to turn around and track him down so I don't believe he may have ever even known unless he bothered to look in his mirror.
