How long does it take to get good?

Hello all, as you may have remembered I posted awhile back about getting into a cat dealership. As of the 25th I will have been there a year now. Due to corona we have been pretty slow and just now picking back up. With up to 4 people cleaning at once the store numbers tanked which caught the attention of the office dwellers to put it lightly. At first it wasn't so bad with minor safety rule changes, a tool box size restriction, and general tips for helping with production which I understood. However today during the monthly meeting things took a interesting turn. There are 7 of us in the shop with 1 old timer who only works on trucks. Everyone else has been there for 1 to 4 years max. We basically got told we were all worthless slow crappy techs and if things didn't get better big changes were going to happen
We brought up the vast variety of stuff we work on [ CAT, AGCO, CLAAS, ALL TRUCKS, and 13 short lines of equipment and our general inexperience of being fairly green yet. We were told that we were supposed to give a time frame until we were to quote "experienced enough to make money"

So I guess my question to those much older and wiser then myself, how much time did it take before you got good at being a technician? Our group is supposed to have an answer by next safety meeting, thanks for your help guys

tool box size restriction?!

being a technician is one thing being an equipt. mechanic is another. I`m not sure anyone can be good at both

Blue924.9 said:

We brought up the vast variety of stuff we work on [ CAT, AGCO, CLAAS, ALL TRUCKS, and 13 short lines of equipment and our general inexperience of being fairly green yet. We were told that we were supposed to give a time frame until we were to quote "experienced enough to make money"

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"Experienced enough to make money" my a$$. Only if you're working as a (necessary) strong pair of hands under the guidance of an experienced (10 years + IMHO) tech. Somebody's bulsh1tting...........

A formal apprenticeship can be anything from 3-5 years, I'm not sure what it is in your location. So on that basis there is a possibility that none of you are "techs" or even "mechanics" yet by that qualification standard. I'm not sure what the yardstick is these days in the Cat dealer world for how much value an apprentivce is supposed to add to the organization. Apprentices are an investment in the future, not a profit centre in the here-and-now IMHO.

mitch504 said:

tool box size restriction?!

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Yeah. WTF is that all about.? Restriction in what sense.?

Another thought. Are they charging you out at full technician/mechanic rates, or at a percentage based on your experience.?
If they are charging you out at full whack then in my opinion they are only fooling themselves.

Are you working on any training programmes, outside or inside the organization, such as the Cat "Think Big" programme.? If you are then by the company's own admission you are not yet fully qualified (or experienced).

When I was training, I would tell my trainee that it takes approx 6 months to get proficient at what he was learning..& that was 1 or 2 inj. pumps he was learning.. DAY IN & DAY OUT.. same pumps..
Different problems but SAME PUMPS..
I CAN imagine the diff. machines that come thru your door.. with the various problems..
U have to be an engine rebuilder, an electrician, an A/C guy, among all the other fields that it takes.!!
It takes YEARS to master just 1 of those fields.!!! NOT JUST “A YEAR” ... but MANY YEARS.!!
& there’s ALWAYS that 1 machine that kicks you azz & u lose money, no matter how experienced u are..

I have been in the truck repair industry for 47 years, plus six years of that working automotive machine. The biggest problem manufactures have these days is several design changes in a single year.
Because of the lousy designs and the constant changes it's really tough to stay ahead of it even with years under your belt. The service writer/shop foreman in your shop has his head up his a$$ right
along with the rest in the office with the thinking they can operate a shop with a green crew. Ain't going to happen. Because of the over designed equipment about the best a person can do is getting
good on four different types and in some cases that's a stretch. But you are dealing with today's business model, and it's a sh!ty way to run a business. I would bet the floor boss in your shop is
about worthless as a mechanic.

And it always seemed to me that as soon as you get to the point you have a particular machine or component figured out so you felt you understood it pretty good one of two things would happen.

First someone in the main office would decide that they wanted to start buying Komatsu instead off Cat or Hough loaders!

Second if they did stay with, say Cat, Cat would change some major design like from the 988B to the 988H loaders! Might not be as bad at a dealer where you might see each new version of a particular machine every year. But working for a company that might go five or ten years between upgrades on major equipment it could be a big shock to see how things had changed in that time.

Like going from a 980G with a 3406 engine then all of a sudden in comes a 980K with a C13 and all that extra stuff on top of the engine, what the heck is that? And what happened did they forget to install the steering wheel at the factory? And they give you a half hour walk around by a guy who has barely any idea of what the different things do as his job is to just deliver it and bolt on a few do-dads that the factory put in a box.

Yeah, I forgot about the service writer.. he can be your best friend or your worse enemy.!!! But in most all cases he’s an A-H..
Such as giving a transmission job to the guy that know/does electrical .. u get my drift..
So the upper level office people left it up to the floor mechanics for an answer.??!!!
What r they gonna do, fire everyone.?? Lol.. they’ll be in the same if not worse boat that they’re in NOW..
IF & that’s a BIG IF, they could hire better tech’s.. they would have.. ALREADY..

Wow! Like the others said it takes a few years to be good and it also takes a willingness to learn. I'm speaking for myself, but if I was told that I am worthless and need to give a time frame of when I would get better. My toolbox will be loaded in my pickup that instance. Inexperienced or not. Never let someone think that they can tell you that you are worthless.

Lol.. I was gonna say that.. but I’m sure he wasn’t/ didn’t want to hear that.. but I’m the same way.. I woulda just laughed..& asked them when r they gonna send u to training school.?!!!
They’re the ones that hired/fired the experienced techs.!!!
They hired “green” mechanics for a reason.!! So they didn’t have to pay them as much as a experienced mech.!!!

Somebody has PMS, it has nothing to do with you, let it roll off your back.

Telling employees that they are "all worthless slow crappy techs and if things didn't get better big changes were going to happen" and having a shop full of new guys working on anything that comes through the door is not how you train mechanics. There is nothing indicated that there anything in place to train or mentor you guys.

There might be layoffs if the business is slow, and they might layoff the slower production mechanics, I wouldn't take that as a judgement on anyone's abilities to learn to be a mechanic. That would be like giving a fourth grader the SAT.

thepumpguysc said:

Lol.. I was gonna say that.. but I’m sure he wasn’t/ didn’t want to hear that.. but I’m the same way.. I woulda just laughed..& asked them when r they gonna send u to training school.?!!!
They’re the ones that hired/fired the experienced techs.!!!
They hired “green” mechanics for a reason.!! So they didn’t have to pay them as much as a experienced mech.!!!

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Agree on the training school question.

When I started at the quarry in the shop the shop itself was just being started by the guy in charge. He actually said he preferred to hire but interested people. Said that way he could train them without having to untrain them first. For the first several years that went good and every year about half the shop, 2 or 3 guys, would be sent to various factory training schools and also there would be 2 or 3 days when he would bring in people from the major dealers and give classes on our site.

This lasted through a few different bosses for a few years. Then it started going downhill to where I heard one of the shop bosses say when asked buy someone above him in the company about what kind of training he offered. His reply was that we let them learn on the job from the manuals, if you send them to those factory schools they come back thinking they need all kinds of fancy tools to do the job!

Then the last maybe ten years I was there about the closest thing to training was to let me go to at the most a one day "class" at the local Cat dealer that to me was more of a sales pitch for Cat ET than actually in depth training on how to use it. Maybe I'm just a slow learner but five hours of classroom lecture with about 20 other students just did not feel like I was getting an in depth understanding of how to use ET and what it could do. Especially as the limited hands on using it on any machines were machines that were very different than the ones I would be seeing back at the quarry.

Then again when I finally got a computer and internet access at the shop I had to learn how to set up a spreadsheet by playing with my home computer with only a bit of help from my wife, at the time, who did have a little training at her job.

thepumpguysc said:

Yeah, I forgot about the service writer.. he can be your best friend or your worse enemy.!!! But in most all cases he’s an A-H..

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Hey, I resemble that remark.......!!

I don't envy your situation. i can't imagine trying to keep up with that many types and brands of Equipment.
The cat dealers here seam to split it up so some work on heavy equipment and others work on farm equipment. Maybe there is a line that you are better at than the other, could you get them them to let you focus on that area? It is way easier to to get proficient at a few machines than be good at everything starting out.
One thing I know you can't fix is a foreman that's an A-H.

I also agree with the others that it takes a lot longer to be a top mechanic/tech. Most of the guys i call on are 50-60 years old and have been at it there entire lives. Try not to let it get you down. just keep learning a good guy can get a job anywhere.

Case in point-We just had a DD16 lay down at a dealer on it's way out the gate, it had a defective liner that split.
It was pulled back in the shop, three weeks later it is supposedly ready to go after all six were replaced.
It made it 35 miles-started missing, hammering and blew the coolant out. I towed it to another dealer and they
found two piston coolers laying in the pan-broken. The young guy who originally did the work had 1 1/2 years
experience, he tried to do the job without removing the coolers. But I blame the floor boss for not keeping
a tight watch on his work.

Sounds like pi$$ poor management to me. If everybody was honest about their level of experience you’d think they would know what they’re up against expectation wise. I’m almost 42, been turning wrenches for a check since I was 19. Honestly it’s only been the last few years I started to feel like I’m really in the zone so to speak. Having worked at several places along the way I can tell you the support you have, or don’t have, makes all the difference in the world as far as your level of confidence.

If you went in there green, and they knew it, it’s on them to help you grow as a tech. They’re only going to get out of you what they put in. You’re there everyday working through the Covid BS trying to make a hand for them. You’ve bought tools etc and they have the nerve to say that? At my age and stage of life I’d have told them to stuff it and left. I understand what you didn’t do that and it was probably a smart move.

To answer your question a little more direct....if that’s possible....

I’d expect it to take several years to pick up on general tricks and tips to make you competent at diving into most things. Sometimes that initial experience will only tell you when you’re about to get in over your head. It won’t help you fix complex things. Those first few years should teach you how to use all your tools, maybe how to make a few, how to keep from getting hurt and most importantly where to go to find the info you need to diagnose and repair. It could be the older tech there, a book, SIS, the internet or a private shop that specializes in that specific machine. Learn to find what you need.

As big an a$$hat as a service writer or foreman can be a good one will make a shop run great and morale will be good as well. Sounds like there’s a lot going on there that doesn’t have a damn thing to do with you or the other mechanics.

As I have read this forum through out the years it is interesting to see how other markets do things. My dad brought me into this business of turning wrenches on equipment. And I ran with it from there. There wasn't any apprenticeship or training. Hell you were lucky if the shop you was working for had manuals or specialty tools. My dad taught me a lot, but for the most part I had to fake it until I made it. I changed jobs a lot to get more money so I could buy more tools. But I also would take manuals home and study them if something was kicking my butt. I still do that now except now it's on a computer. Being efficient at swapping parts will come with time and experience. If you want to be the man that everyone comes to for a answer learn how various systems work, hydraulics, electrical, engines, fuel systems, emissions, transmissions and a/c. For me it doesn't matter what the make or model of what you are working on. They all have the same guts. Some just put things in different order and some are over engineered. Never stop learning and you will only get better. And when you are good you can throw that middle finger up and it'll get some attention. Just be careful on how often you pull that card. You don't want a reputation of being a A-H.

It takes a lifetime Mechanics are learning every day Working at independent shops you get the same variety of brands to work on and no support at all

As someone that has run shops and answers to all the complaints I will say there are plenty of slow techs some need guidance and some need a job at the parts store

One year in the shop you dont even know were the tools are yet Two things that indicate horrible management at your store is the lack of keeping experienced techs and the shop being slow I have never seen a slow shop there is no corona slow down around here construction is wide open, farmers are in the field and trucks never slow down and Cat is about a week out to get in the shop

If your managers treats you guys that way imagine how the customers are treated might enplane the slow shop

Honestly I would have found another job over the weekend if you do stay then work hard don't goof off in the shop eat sleep and breath wrenching keep a daily log so you can show what you have been doing if you get called in

Unless writing essays is part of your job description I would let tell him to go check with mother cat as to how long it takes to make money in fact I would get your assignment in writing and forward it up the chain anyways

mitch504 said:

tool box size restriction?!

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Yes 76 inches max width. Two guys have 84 inch epiqs and it is a sore subject among us other guys