Case 580C Backhoe engine /torque converter install

DaveCC · Mar 2, 2019

I have a Case 580C backhoe which needed some significant engine work. It has the 207 engine. I pulled the engine, rebuilt with new main and rod bearings, etc. I am getting ready to install the engine and am not sure the best way to install the torque converter. If I bolt the torque converter plate to the flywheel and engine and install all at once it would be nearly impossible to get the torque converter to slide over the splined shaft and aligned. If I put the torque converter in first (not attached to the engine) then there is no place to get a wrench in to tighten the torque converter bolts that attach it to the flywheel and engine. Do I need to pull the torque converter bell assembly? I'm sure I'm not the first person to struggle with this....so I thought I would ask anyone who has done this before. Appreciate your help before I get started.

Billrog · Mar 2, 2019

I replaced the torque converter & pump a no. of years ago but the engine was in the was in the machine. All I can remember was getting the torque bolted up within 4 thou and the job took nearly all the book time of 4.5 hrs. Wish I could be helpful just can't remember the details.

Tenwheeler · Mar 2, 2019

I did not like that program on some 680's as well. Bolted the converter to the engine and turned the crank while mating. They went together easier than expected and had no leaks.

alrman · Mar 2, 2019

Engine install would generally be the reverse of engine removal.
How did it come apart??
It would't take that much work to remove the shuttle & bellhousing if you were concerned about it, but I wouldn't say it was impossible to refit the engine with the converter fitted to the flywheel.

TVA · Mar 2, 2019

If you bolt the converter to the flywheel you risk damaging whole lot of stuff in the transmission!
Install converter to transmission, verify it is fully seated, then assemble the rest.

580bob · Mar 3, 2019

you cant do that on a 580c the best thing to do is pull the bell housing and shuttle and install as a unit much faster and less chance of screwing things up you should change the front pump seal plus the converter needs to be installed with the special alignment tool

Vetech63 · Mar 3, 2019

Its not a difficult job if you have everything lined up properly. I always bolted the convertor to the flywheel myself.

DaveCC · Mar 4, 2019

Thanks everyone for your insight. My concern as a few of you mentioned is if I bolt the torque converter back to the flywheel and then blindly try to align that with the weight of the engine I could easily damage something...and that torque converter looks to be a cast iron base that I could crack. I don't want to create more work by breaking something than the extra few hours of pulling the entire shuttle and bell housing and then attaching to the engine and reinstalling all as one unit.

It looks like I can drop the entire shuttle without removing the gas tank, etc above. Is the alignment tool needed if I have the shuttle and housing off the unit...and if so where is the best place to get the special alignment tool?

There are a few drops of oil leaking through the front seal into the bell housing...but not bad. I assume I would need to pull the shuttle apart to replace that seal?

Thanks again for your help.

580bob · Mar 4, 2019

torque is bolted to flex plate then bolts to flywheel seal just pops out of front pump put new one in with sealer see if you can borrow the tool from a dealer you cant dial it in any other way in the service manual it tells you how to build one

DaveCC · Mar 4, 2019

Thanks 580bb. I don't have a case dealer anywhere close to me...and the ones I called tell me they don't make the alignment tool anymore. Can you send me what they show in the service manual to build one? ....or the part number of the tool that I can search for it on the internet?

580bob · Mar 4, 2019

don't have a manual anymore u can buy them online but be sure they have the tools listed in the front they give the dimensions of the tools to make on the machine I made mine back in the 70s it has to be very accurate you cant dial it in because the converter bolts to the back of the flex plate then onto the flywheel which is already bolted to the engine

DaveCC · Mar 5, 2019

Does this tool align the converter to the flex plate or the flex plate/converter to the flywheel? I removed the converter and flex plate together as one unit from the flywheel and haven't separated them. If the alignment tool is to center the converter on the flex plate then should I be able to skip that step since I haven't separated the two?

Tinkerer · Mar 5, 2019

Here is a link to the service manual download. Thanks to Minnpar for making it available !
https://www.minnpar.com/partbooks/B...MANUAL/Case 580CK Series C Service Manual.pdf

Coy Lancaster · Mar 5, 2019

You have to bolt the torque converter to engine flywheel first then put bell housing on then mount shuttle. If you didn't remove shuttle when you pulled engine then align ears on shuttle pump with notches of torque converter and take

PETER MARK HAYWARD · Jun 4, 2020

Coy Lancaster said:
You have to bolt the torque converter to engine flywheel first then put bell housing on then mount shuttle. If you didn't remove shuttle when you pulled engine then align ears on shuttle pump with notches of torque converter and take

PETER MARK HAYWARD · Jun 4, 2020

I pulled the shuttle to replace the pump seal. I am familiar with automotive torque converters. This looks the same but with the torque already bolted to the flywheel how do you get the notches & splines to line up when putting the shuttle back in?

alrman · Jun 4, 2020

Welcome to HEF @PETER MARK HAYWARD
..... that's LOUD!
Set the converter drive tangs at 12 & 6 o'clock & the pump drive tangs at 9 & 3 o'clock
Install shuttle being sure the shuttle goes all the way to the adaptor housing by hand.

Tenwheeler · Jun 4, 2020

alrman said:
Welcome to HEF @PETER MARK HAYWARD
..... that's LOUD!
Set the converter drive tangs at 12 & 6 o'clock & the pump drive tangs at 9 & 3 o'clock
Install shuttle being sure the shuttle goes all the way to the adaptor housing by hand.

We did not know any better. One of us pushed on the belts and turned the engine by turning the fan. The other two worked on getting the transmission mated the engine.

Case 580C Backhoe engine /torque converter install

DaveCC

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Billrog

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Tenwheeler

Senior Member

alrman

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TVA

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580bob

Well-Known Member

Vetech63

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DaveCC

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580bob

Well-Known Member

DaveCC

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580bob

Well-Known Member

DaveCC

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Tinkerer

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Coy Lancaster

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PETER MARK HAYWARD

New Member

PETER MARK HAYWARD

New Member

alrman

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Tenwheeler

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