How is equipment usually serviced?

Cat has a system like that. They call it "Dealer Solution Network" (DSN).
Amongst the more experienced in the dealer world it was affectionately known as Don't Solve Nuthin'..........

I have seen something (probably similar to what is being proposed) by a CNC machine builder. They were trying to offer safety shields that would automatically provide technical information about the component the user was looking at. It reminded me of the read out from Terminator movie. You look at the coolant pump and it tells you the hours since the last service and could give exploded views with instructions on how to disassemble the component. I am not a heavy equipment mechanic, but from what I saw these high end gadgets could never replace a mechanic with real life experience. 'Hold on I can't evaluate the functionality of this hydraulic system without a WiFi connection'

Take out some of the electronic gadgets and you will have a more reliable machine......Of course regular maintenance and skilled technicians are required.

Max Dee said:

I can't really go into deep details (for fear of revealing trade secrets) but I can say that it is an augmented reality software that runs on smart glasses, the technician/ repair professional wears while servicing the equipment. There are several features that will assist in the servicing operations. No, it wont completely replace service professionals (e.g. robot) but it can make their job a bit easier in their servicing/ repair/ maintenance operations. I would like to contact OEMs with a proposal, but at the moment the only people that it will cut costs for is the end users/ owners of the equipment, not the OEMs, so I'm looking for any angle (specifically financial, since that's what any company ultimately cares about) to persuade them to make a deal with our company.

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If I have to wear glasses during a pm, design me some that will tell me what types of metal and ppm of oil draining while I watch it. Get me some glasses that when I look at a particular electrical circuit, that circuit lights up throughout the machine so it makes tracing easier. How about a pair that makes my wife look like a Victoria’s Secret model that loves to cook and clean....and cater to my every whim without any question.

One problem I'm seeing in this thread is not understanding what the OP means by "serviced"!

To me and I would hazard to guess that word would mean to many the normal periodic maintenance of a machine. Say when is oil changed how often is it needing grease, how soon it will be needing new air filters and so on.

Now when you are talking "smart glasses" are they going to be MSHA and OSHA approved safety glasses and will they be self cleaning?

If not self cleaning will they be able to handle being wiped with a rag after they get oil on them and then a gust of wind blows abrasive stone dust that sticks to the oil?

Are they going to still let you wedge your head in those tight places without ripping the wires off them?

How about when some repair man decides to strike an arc with 7018 on the cutting edge while you come around the corner of the dozer?

Are you going to offer free upgrades everytime some factory engineer decides to change the design of some part just to justify his paycheck?

What about when the company you works for decides to merge with some other company that is still running their operation with 12V-71 Detroits and Hough frontend loaders, will you wizbang equipment be backwards compatible to handle those machines now that all the old time "real mechanics" have put out to pasture because someone in upper management was sold on this new high tech pair of glasses and decided they did not need anyone who understood how a machine worked and just needed someone who could swap parts on the instructions of some software program. And the programers of that software have never seen or touched a dirty machine in their lives!

Sorry for rambling on but when someone can make a cellphone that makes sense and doesn't require the owner to take a course in how to understand what all those little pictures up in the corner of the screen mean I'll maybe believe they can at least stand a chance of designing a pair of smart glasses that can tell if the left signal is working! But I doubt they can tell you why it isn't!

What you are talking about is a head up display the sees two ways. If the mechanic can see things through it, then someone somewhere else can see what the mechanic is seeing, and doing. I've built plenty of data bases that can schedule when periodic maintenance is needed. I think you will be trying to sell something that you will have to invent a need for. Judging from your comments, your developers are just as clueless as you are on the real world of heavy construction equipment and maintenance.

John C. said:

What you are talking about is a head up display the sees two ways. If the mechanic can see things through it, then someone somewhere else can see what the mechanic is seeing, and doing. I've built plenty of data bases that can schedule when periodic maintenance is needed. I think you will be trying to sell something that you will have to invent a need for. Judging from your comments, your developers are just as clueless as you are on the real world of heavy construction equipment and maintenance.

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Sounds like a sure fire idea to get bean counters to buy it at a premium cost and drop 25 percent of the repair techs cause a computer system made the pm faster on paper

AzIron said:

Sounds like a sure fire idea to get bean counters to buy it at a premium cost and drop 25 percent of the repair techs cause a computer system made the pm faster on paper

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But won't that set of Roger RamJet goggles make the oil drain faster and be able to see the exact spot on the frame where that wire has rubbed through shorting the back-up alarm?

Not to mention the exhaust leak that is going to cause the suction hose for the transmission pump to fail two months from now. You don't think a good tech would be smart enough to see that while he is in there pulling the magnetic strainer for the torque converter do you?

Just what I was thinking AZ, has always taken the eyes and mind of a skilled tech to look at the machines, the conditions operated in, the conditions operators put on them and then time in field. No computer based program will 'See' the variables as a Human would, a human could enter the variables they see but then could miss pertinent points and slip a mickey into their own wallet.

Sometimes I will have to play detective to find out why the failure happened. I have to talk with the operator ( which is I don't know what happened it was working great and just quit). I have to study the broken whatever it may be, the working conditions and any other component that could effect the operation of the failed part. People think that I change parts. But it's so much more than that. You have to know how it works, what it does, and when it should do it. With that in hand you will need to apply logic and then you will have a solution. Its not simply changing the failed part. Sometimes you will have to dig a little further so that the failure won't happen again. I don't care what kind of software you come up with. You can't program logic, reasoning, skill, and common sense. Thus I know my job is secure. As long as there are parts changers and owners who think that software is the answer. People with skills like mine will get to name their price to apply that logic, reasoning, skill and common sense.

Max Dee said:

I can't really go into deep details (for fear of revealing trade secrets) but I can say that it is an augmented reality software that runs on smart glasses, the technician/ repair professional wears while servicing the equipment. There are several features that will assist in the servicing operations. No, it wont completely replace service professionals (e.g. robot) but it can make their job a bit easier in their servicing/ repair/ maintenance operations. I would like to contact OEMs with a proposal, but at the moment the only people that it will cut costs for is the end users/ owners of the equipment, not the OEMs, so I'm looking for any angle (specifically financial, since that's what any company ultimately cares about) to persuade them to make a deal with our company.

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Cat’s already got you beat. They have augmented reality that shows parts breakdowns on machines. It’s still in the growing stage but I have played around with it some.


A service manual whether on paper, computer, or augmented reality will not and can not replace the know how of a skilled mechanic no matter what the bean counters think. They need to stick with counting beans.


There are endless tips, tricks, skills, and techniques for getting this job done and that can’t be farmed out. It takes decades of experience. You want to get real service improvements then run the engineers out of the manual stage and bring in seasoned mechanics and technical writers to write the service manuals.


Also companies that will barely provide the bare minimum of tooling will not be buying these glasses you propose. Hell laptops just came more widespread.

Paul Council said:

Sometimes I will have to play detective to find out why the failure happened.

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Agree on that and the rest you wrote!

And sometimes you just have to go with a gut feeling on somethings or just say to yourself "Do I really want to replace that part just because someone who has not touched it said that "had to be" the problem?"

I know I have mentioned elsewhere on this forum about a 988H that was triggering a warning horn that said the trans filter was plugged. Short story was after doing all the simple checks at my end I got in touch with the dealers "expert" who said it was a bad ECM and I would need to replace it at few hundreds of dollars cost. I know it wasn't money out of my pocket but I still refused to accept that answer. A few months latter almost by dumb luck I found the problem to be a intermittent problem in a temp sensor and fixed the problem for something like $50.00

Now if some parts changer had been told by a computer program the ECM was at fault and he then replaced it and the problem was still there would the program again insist the problem was a bad ECM and get the parts changer to replace a second the third then fourth and so on till the factory ran out of ECMs?

I can bet that anyone who has been hands-on with heavy equipment for any period of time could tell similar stories. One, where what might seem to be the obvious cause of a problem, just does not make sense on some level and the tech just knows from experience to keep looking to find an answer that may seem out in left field but in the end is the actual cause.

It was taught to me by my dad. That if you are going to tell a customer that he needs to spend thousands of dollars to make it run. Then you better be dang sure about it or you won't have any customers. I took that to heart and made it my mission to know what I am doing.

JD955SC said:

Also companies that will barely provide the bare minimum of tooling will not be buying these glasses you propose. Hell laptops just came more widespread.

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I can agree 1,000% on that point! About a year ago I stopped by the quarry where I retire from in 2015 and was talking with the guy who more or less took my place as the only mechanic at the plant. Without mentioning the company's name lets just say they are one of the three largest Cement and Aggregates companies in the world. Well this guy happened to mention that he had been trying for over a year to get his subscription to Cat ET updated so he could use the laptop that was a hand-me-down to me back in 2012!

This local plant has at least three 980G(II), one 980K, one 988H, one 773G and one 769D all that have ECM's that could be connected to Cat ET for various operations from calibrating sensors to basic troubleshooting and I know they got a new Cat skidsteer so I would assume that would have need of Cat ET for some purpose.

So if a major company like this does not feel the need to supply this type of tool to a tech do you think they are going to be buying some new untested pair of glasses to do what I did with a simple spreadsheet that I set up with nothing more than what I could learn on my own on the internet?

I'm sure at some large scale operation, say like where Nige worked, where they have dozens upon dozens of machines all in one location some of these high tech tools could be justified.

But in a situation like where I worked with at the most two dozen major pieces of equipment that becomes a problem. Just off the top of my head I can think of at least a dozen operations the company I worked for had in just New York. Many being an hour or two drive away so the logistics of trying to share even something as simple as a laptop with Cat ET on it is not a workable solution, if two plants need the tool the same day who's operation do you shut down?

Get back here Max Dee..................we aint done with you yet!!! LOL Seriously, everyone is trying to give you some valuable insight as to what we have to deal with.

Some old phart on here says a good mechanic isn't expensive, he's priceless!!!

I appreciate everyone's feedback. I really learned a lot on this forum, much more than simply browsing and reading websites. That's why I wanted to try posing this question on here, so I can talk with actual industry insiders (and people who work with this equipment everyday). You gave me a lot to think about and valuable insight, again I am grateful for your help and advice.

I hope it'll be ok if I can post additional questions (if any come up), since you guys have been so helpful.

Max Dee said:

I hope it'll be ok if I can post additional questions (if any come up), since you guys have been so helpful.

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Ask all you want but don't get upset if we post negative things. Now if you are giving free samples..............

One point I might make would be to maybe look more in the direction of stationary engines, big gensets and that kind of stuff. I know not far from here there is a landfill that uses the methane from the decomp of the garbage to power several large gensets in one building. I'm sure there are many more like that. Just seems that a large concentration of engines in a cleaner location than a stone quarry might be a better application.

That said those big operations like that already have the engine hooked to all kinds of computers already. I was told by a Cat tech that when he gets a call from that trash powered plant they tell him when he walks in the door which injector on which engine is in need of being replaced. They have pyrometers in every exhaust port and can spot exactly which cylinder is out of spec with out even looking at the engine.

About a month after I bought my new Bobcat E42 I got a call from Bobcat service monitoring something or another. I forgot what they were called. Anyway he said they are remotely monitoring my E42 and will phone me if a service alert calls in from my E42. Well, okay - thanks.

I used to work with a guy whose Dad started a company for road construction equipment; pavers n such. The product he developed would monitor parameters on the machinery and (I believe) allow technicians to remotely log into the system. I guess they could tell you which sensor / component wasn't working correctly. I think they also had the ability to bypass and manually override things during emergencies. It sounded like a legitimate setup.

Cell phone and microwave towers all have some kind of backup generator plant at the base of the tower. Those companies do no maintenance what so ever! I've done a few emergency calls and found dead batteries, engine oil filters with three or four year ago dates and antifreeze so old the smell ran me out of the building just cracking the radiator cap.