Need advice on purchase CAT 973 or 983?

Let me preface this by saying I don't know $hit about heavy equipment but I am very fluent mechanically. I am an ASE master tech blah blah blah I can fix anything with an engine. But this is big boy stuff I understand that. I purchased about 1,000 acres on the TN/NC border and I want to make my own side by side road racing track for personal use then maybe open it up later if the county will let me. Basically something the size of road atlanta but just dirt and for side by sides.

So I have a contact with a 4 axle low boy that can move up to 80,000 lbs for free within reasonable distance if he can get the route approved, that's not my issue. I want a big a$$ track loader just because I like cool $hit and it is going to stay on the property as art work after I'm done with it most likely. I'm fine with taking my sweet time repairing stuff if I can even figure out how to work on something that heavy.

So my question is as a newbie am I better off going with a old school 983 or a newer 973? I am ok spending up towards $40,000. I've seen some high hours 2000+ year 973 for $40k and under, and I've seen some lower hour but much older 983 for $20k and under. I definitely want to stay pre-emissions, what is going to be my most reliable bang for the buck model year wise? I am not using it for a business, it doesn't need to be moved around on a trailer, I just want to rough out this track with it and maintain the track every now and then.

973. The 983 engine is under the loader is a pain to work on. Engine in rear much easier safer etc

Ok, is there a specific year 973 that is best pre-emissions? I.e. was there any significant changes I need to be aware of or stay away from?

Unless you are experienced working on hydrostatic drive transmissions I'd stay well away from a 973. The rear-engined hydrostatic-drive loaders can be very maintenance & repair-intensive, and expensive to fix. If you check out the threads in this section - mostly about 953/963 but applies equally to a 973 - you will see the subject of drive issues comes up on a regular basis. Below are a couple of threads that have appeared over the past couple of months........
https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/cat-953-travel-problem.83201/#post-892531
https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/hpcu-valve.73029/
https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/963c-2002-year-issues.82564/
https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/cat-953-track-loader-control-linkage-problems.81135/

The 983 with its powershift transmission and hydraulic steering clutches & brakes is a much less complex machine, although as posted above access into the engine bay can often be somewhat of a challenge. To resolve that issue safely requires the correct brace for the lift arms.

Ok, so the question is, which is going to need less work. The engine of a 983 or the hydrostatic transmission of a 973 lol. Considering the 983 is going to be like a 1977-1982 and I can get a 1998-2004 973 I wonder which is more likely to make a lap around the property issue free. This is mostly going to be knocking down trees and dragging them out and then roughing out a road. It would be nice to have the winch on the back.

What engine is in the later 983 vs the 973 and what common issues do they have? Am I going to need to go through the IP and injectors on either or are they fairly bombproof pre-emissions?

Either one is a used machine so who knows what problems you'll run into. Loaders this size are bought to do heavy hard work and are often abused. If you need to do the undercarriage will cost as much as the machine or more. Crawlers are considered money pits and looking at the biggest track loaders could be considered the Fort Knox of money pits! For what you want to do a dozer might be a better option or possibly a couple different machines like a dozer and a wheel loader. It you want a loader a 977L might be a better choice and much more common than a 983. This could be a big advantage as used and aftermarket parts would be more accessible. Anything with steel tracks would be slow for maintenance and if the course is any length would wear out the undercarriage in a hurry. Maybe even a AG tractor with a box blade or something would be better for maintaining the track and need only basic maintenance like a truck. You'll need a water truck too if the track is dirt and try to incorporate drainage. A road grader might be a good option as well.

I guess my question is how would a big dozer be less of a money pit than a track loader? Aren't they effectively the same thing just one has a bucket that goes higher? I just figured track loader because it can do more tricks than a dozer can but still get the basic thing a dozer does done. Maybe I'm missing something there. I agree with you on maintenance I'm not going to use the big toy for that, honestly this is going to be a one time use project. I just need the big toy to rough out the main track one time after the big heavy stuff is out of the way I can use smaller equipment to keep it up.

Also this is side by sides not ferraris, they can handle some imperfections and water traps lol. Think hot wheels track with figure 8's and loops (not really but pretty much) lol.

Also just pointing out the track loaders seem MUCH cheaper than a comparable size dozer probably because of the reasons you stated, but I only need it to work one time so if I have to eat some repairs it seems like I'll be starting out a lot lower to begin with.

I just need a rig that can knock down trees and either bury them or drag them to a pile and then level out a flatish path through 900ish acres one time.

I don't think you want too big of a track for side by sides. They'd be worn out in short order. They aren't made for sustained flat out driving like a car. For making roads or a long track a dozer is better. Depending on the size of tree's a D6 or D7 size might be a good choice. A loader could be OK too but you were looking at the biggest most expensive loaders. A winch is much more common on a dozer. Repairs on a track machine are nothing like repairs on a passenger vehicle. You need a jack or hoist for just about everything and access can be difficult at best. If looking at loaders look for something more common like a 977. Lots of them out there. A 955 will still get a lot of work done.

I agree with Welder Dave, get a true Dozer, D6 C would be a good one, then opt to a Motor Grader for really flattening out what need be and to final grade. If absolutely need a loader tractor a 941 or 955 would be much better suited to Newbie Techniques and Learning curves. Money is easier as for services or minor repairs than either the 983 or 973, a 963 with well worn undercarriage is gonna take $12-$20K just to put into the realm of functionally good.

I have a mid range Allis Chalmers HD7G similar in size to a in-between 941/955 series. Does well for an old wrench bender determined to make his own grade work. It is not a dozer is a loader, will handle some dozer type work but full dozer is better suited.

Does the loader make more sense if the terrain is hilly? I'm fine going dozer they look cooler anyways but I'm just imaging having to dig through some hilly stuff to make it flatter. We're talking some hills and 100 year old trees here which is why I was thinking bigger toy.

Talk to those that deal in this business as are here
Massive machines take tons of effort to move or work with
Tend to have poor feel in tighter conditions a 983 takes a big swath to turn where rails dig hard due to weight on rails where will spend as much time cleaning up what it mangles.
Perfectly suited to huge high volume sites not so much the hobbyist.
Also know bigger may look tougher yet also takes more maintenance and fuel, parts more expensive where with older machines will need more of.

Takes as you noted a specialized hauler and when done unless another willing to do similar with it will become yardamentation.

Is reasoning most large scale excavation companies have more dozers than loaders and more excavators than the other two.

Gotcha. Ok well dozer it is then. What is the best bang for the buck with enough power and weight to move some big boy stuff out of the way?

Can you post some pics. of what you're dealing with? A dozer has a lower center of gravity than a loader.

It's pretty much what you would imagine, mostly wooded mountain terrain.

Are there any certain years changes features or models that are good/bad want or stay away from? Should I stick with cat or is there other options that are better? The dozers are much more valuable than the loaders I worry i'll pay more and have the same $hit worn out.

Best to pay an experienced mechanic to check out any potential machine. Cat machines have better parts support and the larger dozers are powershift and not hydrostatic. I think a D6C or D6D would be good choice. Maybe a D7F or D7G but depends largely on overall condition and undercarriage life left. Might be better to pay a little more for decent undercarriage. Another option might be to talk to your local Cat dealer. They may know someone with a decent older dozer for sale.

given a choice I`d take a 983 over any dozer built provided I had solid ground to run it on

petepilot said:

given a choice I`d take a 983 over any dozer built provided I had solid ground to run it on

Click to expand...

At some 70,000# It would stick in pretty much anything resembling Soft!!

As noted above, PHOTOS, type terrain?, expected rock?, structure or woodland?
Best thing to remember of Dozing, make multiple passes and cuts where less is more and when cut a 'Lift' then pushed to a spoil pile make another. Do not try to go deep cut as Blade full as that does not work, use the blade 'Mold Board' for intent of keeping shallower cut spoil in the blade line and ability to make decent cuts develops quicker. Loaders are fine if have a truck or trailer to haul off spoil, using the machine as a digger/hauler just eats up undercarriage, fuel and time.

Watch operators on sites around you, even in the loose materials at mine or quarry overburden or work pile repositions.

The other problem is experience. If you're fairly green running big equipment you can make a big mess a lot faster than you can make a finished product. I've seen people rent skid steers thinking they're saving money over hiring it out. They spend 3 times longer to do a 1/3 of a job.

I have some friends that own excavation companies that are willing to show me the ropes, I just want to learn, the more skills you have the better off life will be in my opinion. I just turned 34 and been building stuff with my hands my whole life so I plan on doing that till I die. I just like cool stuff because life is short.

Side note, I came across a friend that has a D9L for sale says he'll give it to me cheap it has good undercarriage like 8,000 hours I trust this guy. Is there anything wrong with a 3412 engine or the 100,000 lbs weight?

Cool and Mining sized equipment do not equal out. A 9L will need tons of fuel, will not be much better than the 983, just huge heavy and damaging just to run. If looking to make Highway cuts is a useful machine. If have to have a BIG machine try your friend's unit out first, then make your decisions. Buying on the whim & fly is foolish.