Ultra low sulfer diesel equipment for export?

Andrew Navarrete · May 23, 2020

Hello,
I'm not sure if this topic was covered elsewhere on the forum but here's my question....

How can ultra low sulfur diesel excavators or any other equipment be shipped and used in a country where there is no ULSD?

Are there kits or tuning available to convert these machines to run on high sulfur diesel?

Nige · May 23, 2020

Andrew Navarrete said:
How can ultra low sulfur diesel excavators or any other equipment be shipped and used in a country where there is no ULSD?

The answer is not straightforward, but basically it is NO.
Any machine built with TIER 4 emission certification (I think the European equivalent is EURO 6) in the US MUST be run on ULSD. Failure to do that will result in the sulphur in the fuel "poisoning" the exhaust aftertreatment system. This wll put the machine into limp mode and light up the Diagnostic System like a Christmas tree.
Machines built with TIER 3 emissions certification can be used on diesel that is not ULSD, provided that they do not have any aftertreatment system fitted. In other words they comply with the requirements of TIER 3 purely by way of design parameters such as compression ratio, fuel injection, valve timing and/or other engine parameters.

Andrew Navarrete said:
Are there kits or tuning available to convert these machines to run on high sulfur diesel?

If by that you mean from the manufacturer that originally built the machine. No.

John C. · May 23, 2020

Actually there was a program for awhile at Cat Dealers that would enable a machine to be exported to nonconforming countries. There was a lot of restrictions and paperwork and the changes had to be done by a dealer. The machine then had to carry paperwork showing delivery to a shipper for confirmation of it being out of the country. This was about five years ago during Tier 4 Interim. Does the program exist for Tier 4 Final machines now? Who knows? I've been out of the dealer network for those issues since I left the employment of a Cat Dealer.

funwithfuel · May 23, 2020

Volvo was pushing their tier IV off the continent through Richie bros with certificate that when it would reach the destination, the supporting dealer would remove the emissions equipment and re flash the ecu to work without. That's been a personal b!tch of mine for a long time.

Kartal · May 25, 2020

The only effect of sulphur is the rapid deterioration of engine oil. Engine oil has an initial TBN (Total Base Number), typically ranging from 9 to 13, TBN is the opposite of TAN (Total Acid Number). Hence, decrease in TBN number is the indication of increase in acidity in engine oil, it's deterioration. Engine manufacturers allow down to half of initial TBN of engine oil, they determine the oil change interval according to this.
How sulphur (SO3) from diesel fuel results in acid formation in the oil? When you send exhaust gas into the combustion chamber (exhaust gas recirculation), water (H2O) in the exhaust gas, reacts with SO3. H2O+SO3=H2SO4=Sulphuric acid, kills the engine oil. What did we do for Komatsu engines? We just clogged the exhaust gas, it can't enter the combustion chamber. No gas, no headache.

Nige · May 25, 2020

Kartal said:
The only effect of sulphur......

Everything you said above is correct IMHO, with one exception - the word "only" in the first line.

On an electronically-controlled TIER 4 or EURO 6 engine equipped with an exhaust aftertreatment system that uses either a diesel particulate filter (DPF) or that injects Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) as part of the aftertreatment system, or both, will not run on anything other than ultra-low sulphur diesel (ULSD) without generating all sorts of Codes in the engine management system and without the engine going into limp mode.

Will the TIER 4/EURO engine run on high-sulphur fuel..? Yes it will, and your comments above apply.
Will it run for long..? No. As soon as the aftertreatment system becomes "poisoned" by the sulphur the engine will go into limp mode and that's all she wrote.

I had personal experience of this not so many years ago where customers were importing TIER 4 machines into a Caribbean country where the fuel sulphur was much higher than the 15ppm limit for ULSD. Engines generally ran for anything between 1 week and 1 month before going into limp mode. AFAIK the majority of the machines/vehicles were re-exported back to the US after the customers gave up on trying to get them to run on the locally-available fuel.

Kartal · May 25, 2020

Nige said:
Everything you said above is correct IMHO, with one exception - the word "only" in the first line.

On an electronically-controlled TIER 4 or EURO 6 engine equipped with an exhaust aftertreatment system that uses either a diesel particulate filter (DPF) or that injects Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) as part of the aftertreatment system, or both, will not run on anything other than ultra-low sulphur diesel (ULSD) without generating all sorts of Codes in the engine management system and without the engine going into limp mode.

Will the TIER 4/EURO engine run on high-sulphur fuel..? Yes it will, and your comments above apply.
Will it run for long..? No. As soon as the aftertreatment system becomes "poisoned" by the sulphur the engine will go into limp mode and that's all she wrote.

I had personal experience of this not so many years ago where customers were importing TIER 4 machines into a Caribbean country where the fuel sulphur was much higher than the 15ppm limit for ULSD. Engines generally ran for anything between 1 week and 1 month before going into limp mode. AFAIK the majority of the machines/vehicles were re-exported back to the US after the customers gave up on trying to get them to run on the locally-available fuel.

Thanks for good information on Caterpillar. In fact, in Komatsu, we didn't face limp mode, some fault codes appeared related to EGR, but didn't pay attention, still working without problems after 6 years.
In case of Caterpillar, I've seen this, they claim they delete EGR system:
https://www.dieselspec.com/egr-delete/caterpillar/

Nige · May 25, 2020

That information wasn't just in respect of Cat, it was general. The list below may not be complete but it's what I remember.........
Pickup trucks from Ford & Chevy, mid-size trucks with Cummins & Nissan engines, large trucks with Cummins, Scania, Mercedes, & Volvo engines. Various types of small/medium construction equipment with so many different makes of engine I can't begine to start to remember them all.

The OP wasn't talking about a Caterpillar machine as far as I can see. My reply was intended to be "generic".

John C. · May 25, 2020

When you say to clogged the exhaust gas, do you mean you plugged the exhaust gas recirculation?

Kartal · May 25, 2020

John C. said:
When you say to clogged the exhaust gas, do you mean you plugged the exhaust gas recirculation?

Exactly, just clogged it with a metallic gasket at egr valve output.

John C. · May 25, 2020

OK? Do you then vent the excess pressure to the atmosphere? I've seen plugged breathers actually cause enough pressure in the crankcase to roll the rear main seal lips.

Kartal · May 25, 2020

John C. said:
OK? Do you then vent the excess pressure to the atmosphere? I've seen plugged breathers actually cause enough pressure in the crankcase to roll the rear main seal lips.

We just installed a gasket at the point shown in picture. We didn't let the exhaust gas to escape atmosphere, didn't create problem, if you've doubts, you can open that pipe to atmospheric pressure.

Kartal · May 25, 2020

Marketing guys say that there exists unburned fuel in exhaust gas, engine uses them for higher efficiency.

That's a funny argument, in diesel cycle (unlike Otto cycle) mixture is always poor, not a rich mixture. Honestly, the main purpose of EGR is to pollute the air fuel mixture, the aim is to get lower temperatures in combustion chamber. High temperature combustion means higher formation of NOX compounds (NOX is carcinogenic) and it's the main parameter in TIER (Euro) limitations.

John C. · May 25, 2020

Your diagram doesn't show where the crankcase gasses are going. Can you explain.

Have the new engines with DEF done away with the cooled exhaust gas recirc?

Kartal · May 25, 2020

John C. said:
Your diagram doesn't show where the crankcase gasses are going. Can you explain.

Have the new engines with DEF done away with the cooled exhaust gas recirc?

It's not a full diagram but a page from structure and function section.
We didn't see excess pressure (blow by) in the crankcase. one can just check it by blow by pressure.
Didn't understand the last question, recirculated exhaust gas kills the combustion efficiency for the sake of lower combustion temperatures. High pressure common rail systems have been developed to balance this inefficiency, I mean, high pressure spray of fuel means more fuel surface area (more micro droplets), faster heat transfer for combustion.

Kartal · May 25, 2020

John C. said:
Your diagram doesn't show where the crankcase gasses are going. Can you explain.

Have the new engines with DEF done away with the cooled exhaust gas recirc?

To kill the combustion, they don't use only EGR, but they retard the injection timing, after Top dead center. Just to get cool combustion, lower temperatures. To get rid of, to balance these inefficiencies, high pressure fuel injection helps us.

John C. · May 25, 2020

The introduction of exhaust gas into the air intake is as you said, it changes the air fuel ratio by inputting what is essentially inert gas into the air stream which lowers the combustion temperature and makes less NOX. With the advent of DEF, that NOX production is changed in the exhaust stream before it goes to the atmosphere. The firing temperatures are now back where they were before the advent of Tier 4 Interim.

I've seen little crankcase pressure from any of the Japanese engineered engines. However, the Cats and Cummins engines make profuse amounts of pressure. It is one of the key parameters I used before the advent of exhaust gas recirculation. The B series Cummins was good but put any time on a C series or M11 and vapor from the breather was a quick check on engine condition. Plug that breather hose up and you had leaks showing up on every joint with a gasket. I saw and documented the same thing with the Cat engines when they went from the C series excavators to the D series. With Tier 4 Interim the breather was replaced with the crankcase gasses pulled into the intake of the turbocharger with a filter between the crankcase and the turbo. Now I pull the dipstick up enough that the gases can escape for an indication of whether on not I need to take an oil sample.

funwithfuel · May 25, 2020

Andrew Navarrete said:
Hello,
I'm not sure if this topic was covered elsewhere on the forum but here's my question....

How can ultra low sulfur diesel excavators or any other equipment be shipped and used in a country where there is no ULSD?

Are there kits or tuning available to convert these machines to run on high sulfur diesel?

Do you feel that you've gotten a good answer to your question?

LACHAU · May 26, 2020

Andrew Navarrete said:
Hello,
I'm not sure if this topic was covered elsewhere on the forum but here's my question....

How can ultra low sulfur diesel excavators or any other equipment be shipped and used in a country where there is no ULSD?

Are there kits or tuning available to convert these machines to run on high sulfur diesel?

Dear All,
Member @ Andrew Navarrete is in Ecuador.
All construction machine manufacturer websites have a country selection item for customers.
If you are in Ecuador, you will be provided with the right engine.

LACHAU · May 26, 2020

Example: Engine of KOMATSU PC210 for US and Ecuador market are difference as follow.
US market = EPA Tier 4 final standard.
Ecuador market = Equivalent to EU Stage 3A standard. Engine can use High Sulfur Diesel, of course.

Ultra low sulfer diesel equipment for export?

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