New to Ctls

Hey everyone

Me and my business partner recently decided that we’d like to get into another business and this is what we’re going to try and take a run at. We’ve decided to start with a ctl and go from there.

So I’ve been doing a ton of research (almost to much lol) on what size of machines and brands to go with. I’m trying to spend about $40k-$50k on a used machine and hoping to stay under 1600hrs or so. Is there anything I should be looking for in the machines when I check them out?

Right now I’m looking at the 75hp class just because it seems to fit within our price range to find a lower hour machine. I’m looking at Cat 259, 279 and 289, Bobcat T595 to T740, Kubota svl75-2 and the Tak TL8. Does anybody have any recommendations on them? I’ve pretty much ran them all besides the tak, what’s everyone’s thoughts on them?

Right now I have 4 jobs for June lined up and 3 are replacing gravel driveways and 1 is grading around a new house being built and that kind of seems like what we’ll be doing to start. But ultimately we would like to get into acreage development (land clearing, building driveways, excavating, etc,) and for that I think I would need a bigger machine to run some bigger attachments. So would I be better off trying to get into a bigger class like a 299 or t870? Just in case these jobs come sooner then later and for the most part you could still use them on the smaller jobs? Or just get the mid sized and deal with the problem of needing a bigger one when I need too?

Any help is appreciated! Like I said i think I’ve done way to much research and am over thinking everything but I just want to be sure to buy the right machine the first time.
Thanks!

The Takeuchi and Kubota both have self storing windshield (no stupid door to get in the way).

Kubota wins for me in the 75 horsepower and under class. We have both the SVL75 & SVL75-2.
Only hate point is the HVAC inlet design on the Kubota. My Takeuchis are little older and I would hope that the electrical gremlins are now resolved by design instead of us chasing them in the field.

You won't go wrong with either. Another difference between those two , TL8 & SVL75-2 is the radial vs parallel lift. You can get closer to a dump truck, while loading, with the parallel lift on the Kubota.

You might want to consider the CASE 310 or 370. As far as going right into the larger machines, I would wait until you are severely taxing the 75 hp machine before moving into the largest machines. Those driveways can be done with the 75 hp machines.

Problem is if you buy a big machine and try to do any residential lot grading it will be too big for anything in the city. Haven't ran any of the one's you're looking at but rented a smaller bobcat and was fairly impressed. My CTL is a Deere and I wouldn't buy one again. One downside is for Takeuchi SMS in Alberta is the dealer and so far they haven't been great, at least IMO.

I know them by first name at the Takeuchi dealers and headquarters in Atlanta. Been sent Schematics, talked through troubleshooting, had out of warranty parts replaced at no charge, BUT, I couldn't name but one Kubota dealer guy, and have never had to contact Kubota headquarters or their zone rep.

I'm still a little PO'd at Takeuchis handling of my 500 hr engine failure on my 2nd TL150. The air cleaner can was defective and they claimed that it was run w/o filters. Gave me the same can back on my $15k new engine. No worries though, as my coworkers polished that one off 1700 hrs later.

Don't get me wrong, they both earn their keep here, but, I have a tremendously smaller familiarity with my Kubotas because I've never seen weird gremlins or failures on them, yet <knock on wood>, save for the sucky HVAC inlet.

One other consideration that can be overlooked is that the Kubota needs a deeper front to back bucket for the average operator to view the front cutting edge, due to the seating position. My Kubotas all came with, but, most of my other buckets are too short, front to back.

My issue with Takeuchi has been dealer stocks no parts. Blew fan belt, none in stock no idea size they were useless. And they rent my exact mini hoe, but have no parts? Insane. They also know nothing about the machines. Other thing is ordering parts from the states, you pay for shipping even if you wait, and the fastest shipping was about 2 weeks and cost $100 on small parts. Volvo gets me parts from the states next day for like $5 shipping and has been super helpful in some issues.

What is the dealer presence in your area? All machines break so you will need parts and service regardless of the brand you buy.

I'm a Cat guy because I like the brand and more importantly have a great relationship with my dealer. A business's success is dependent on cultivating relationships with other like minded business people in your industry from clients, subcontractors, vendors and suppliers - no matter the size of your company.

Currently running 2 - 279D's. One is a 2016 and the other is a 2019 both bought new. Both have been great machines that we use mostly for fine grading and as a utility support machine - loading a rock box, carrying pipe, backfilling, etc. At 74 HP they are under the DEF threshold with is a big plus.

We don't need a CTL that can load a truck so the radial arms work better for what we do. If you need to load dumps you may want to look at a vertical lift CTL. Just keep in mind there are more P&B's on a vertical lift to grease and maintain.

Now back to the local dealer relationship. Our 2016 279 had a bad oil sample come back on a final drive more than a month before the warranty was set to expire. Flushed the drive and re-sampled in 50 hrs as directed. 50 hrs later we re-sampled and the results were worse with high wear metal. Well by this time we were past the expiration of the EPTW by a couple of weeks as the machine wasn't used that much. Long story short dealer replace the final drive with a new one and I didn't pay a dime. They swapped it out and said they would work it out with Cat.

A couple of weeks ago our '18 325FL with 1400 hrs blew a cooler hose on a big job we are working on with a tight schedule. Contacted the dealer and the closest replacement hose was in Shanghai China - at least 2 weeks with the current situation going on. Dealer had a new machine at another branch so they removed the hose off a new machine and sent it over night to our local dealer. We replaced the hose on site and was back to working.

Just my $.02, your milage may vary.

heymccall the self storage door was a the big draw for me on the Kubota and I’ve heard nothing about good things with the 75’s. Do you find the seat is noticeably back in the kubota? Or just kind of a minor detail?

KSSS I’ve never really thought about the cases. I’ve never ran one either. Is there anything I should look for in one? I think I remember reading about having the ez-eh? I think.

suladas That is true about a bigger machine, I mostly was just thinking about it because I had a good price lined up for one and thought it might be worth it. I knew sms was the only dealer for them but I didn’t realize that there service was lacking. To be honest the only reason I am looking at the taks is because my Mom is a manager for sms so she was able a good price on a machine plus the service and parts after but it doesn’t really sound like it’s worth the headache of dealing with them.

CM1995 I have every major brand within half hour of my house I’d say. As far as what the dealerships are like to deal with, I’m not to sure. I know I’ve been into the cat dealership twice and both times were good. I’ve heard good things of cat but I’m not sure if it’s just because cat dominates the industry I work in and there really is no one else to hear anything negative about. But it definitely sounds like they treat you right!
Also you seem to like your 279’s? That’s one machine I’ve had a hard time getting reviews on but it seems like a lot of people have them.

thanks everyone for the replies!

I'm 6'5" 280# and have no issues with the Kubota, size wise.
And, the best recommendation I can give is that a retired heavy equipment operator friend of mine bought a used hard 3k hour unit, and absolutely loves it.
And he's picky about machines, and is the only reason that I took a 322b out to 23k with zero major issues, including being nearly as tight as new.
He's 5'10" 300+# and the only change he made was adding a rear vision camera (which, IMHO, is mandatory).

If the Takeuchi is the better deal, you still won't regret it. I've got 8 Takeuchis (CTLS and mini excavators), and it really is amazing how much abuse they take, but, so do the Kubotas.

Cdn dirt guy said:

heymccall the self storage door was a the big draw for me on the Kubota and I’ve heard nothing about good things with the 75’s. Do you find the seat is noticeably back in the kubota? Or just kind of a minor detail?

KSSS I’ve never really thought about the cases. I’ve never ran one either. Is there anything I should look for in one? I think I remember reading about having the ez-eh? I think.

suladas That is true about a bigger machine, I mostly was just thinking about it because I had a good price lined up for one and thought it might be worth it. I knew sms was the only dealer for them but I didn’t realize that there service was lacking. To be honest the only reason I am looking at the taks is because my Mom is a manager for sms so she was able a good price on a machine plus the service and parts after but it doesn’t really sound like it’s worth the headache of dealing with them.

CM1995 I have every major brand within half hour of my house I’d say. As far as what the dealerships are like to deal with, I’m not to sure. I know I’ve been into the cat dealership twice and both times were good. I’ve heard good things of cat but I’m not sure if it’s just because cat dominates the industry I work in and there really is no one else to hear anything negative about. But it definitely sounds like they treat you right!
Also you seem to like your 279’s? That’s one machine I’ve had a hard time getting reviews on but it seems like a lot of people have them.

thanks everyone for the replies!

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SMS may improve, they only took it over under 2 years ago from Scott equipment which was even worse. The thing that just bugs me is not being able to get parts quick and not having inventory on hand, the CTL may be a little different who knows? Although it seems super odd when they have K-rents in the same building and rent these machines out not to stock a lot of parts for them. Can't fault them for everything, they said it was Takeuchi who cause the shipping issues, they said that Takeuchi dictates who ships their stuff so that's why it's so slow. Case makes a great machine, between my brother and dad they have 3 but the dealers are awful also, at least in the Edmonton area, I almost bought a Case but Rocky mountain was so bad I couldn't buy one and be forced to deal with them. But going with Cat or Deere you just have a much bigger dealer network to get stuff and so many more machines around. While i'm not crazy about my Deere I at least know if I need parts if it's not in the city they will be able to get it fast.

I’ve got about 280 trouble free hours on my T595. My only gripe is fuel economy. The things drinks diesel. The Kubota door would be nice. If I’m doing anything that requires frequent in and out of the cab, I just pop mine off. It’s less than a 5 minute job...no tools required.

if you’re going to do land clearing, I’d highly recommend you get a high flow machine. I’ve got a 60” brush cutter for mine, and with high flow, it’s almost impossible to stall out. Also like the 2-speed and the ride control features.

OTG AuGres said:

I’ve got about 280 trouble free hours on my T595. My only gripe is fuel economy. The things drinks diesel. The Kubota door would be nice. If I’m doing anything that requires frequent in and out of the cab, I just pop mine off. It’s less than a 5 minute job...no tools required.

if you’re going to do land clearing, I’d highly recommend you get a high flow machine. I’ve got a 60” brush cutter for mine, and with high flow, it’s almost impossible to stall out. Also like the 2-speed and the ride control features.

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I have a brushcat for my T250 and it uses 50% more fuel while cutting. Mowers and cutters put a strain on the engine and hydro's.

CM1995 said:

I have a brushcat for my T250 and it uses 50% more fuel while cutting. Mowers and cutters put a strain on the engine and hydro's.

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Mine drinks heavily regardless of what you’re doing with it, or what attachment you’re using

I second looking at Case. I was looking at a TR340, but wanted to stay away from DEF, so I ended up buying a TR310 and have been very pleased with it. For a 75hp machine I was surprised with the power it has. It works great for grading out yards. I've spent a lot of times in a Tak and I think their controls are smoother, but once you run the case for a few minutes they're pretty nice. I've not messed with the adjustments on the EH controls, but it seems like a neat system

OTG AuGres said:

Mine drinks heavily regardless of what you’re doing with it, or what attachment you’re using

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That's not the reason why I divorced Bobcat but that sucks - how much fuel is it burning per hour running a bucket doing normal grade work?

The new B series CASE introduced is really nice. I demoed a TV450B and I was really impressed with it. The A series are nice but the B series updated the cab and some other updates depending on the machine. I had a 310 on rent for a Summer a couple years ago and thought it was a productive machine for a medium sized frame. I worked it like I work my large frame machines and it couldnt run with them but in its element really nice I thought. If your in the market, I would say run them and see what you think. Plenty of options to chose from, might as well run a variety.

OTG AuGres said:

Mine drinks heavily regardless of what you’re doing with it, or what attachment you’re using

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My Deere 319 will burn a tank in 6-7 hours doing dirt work. Biggest issue I find is without 2 speed it's too slow to not run WOT or within 100 RPM's. If i'm doing something lighter and not moving far and I keep RPM's at about 2400-2500 it burns a ton less.