Hvy equip school or union apprenticeship?

Hello,

My 22yo stepson is thinking about going to one of two heavy equipment schools and getting 'level 2' type certification, I'm not sure what that means and I know nothing about heavy equipment or construction industry. I do think it's to operate typical heavy equipment minus cranes.

We're in upper Michigan and the closest union heavy equipment apprenticeship program is 150+ miles away and the cost for housing would be significant for him to attend until he lands a job and imho I'm not sure he has the patience for a multi year apprenticeship program IF he got accepted.

One school that is closer that he could drive daily to for 6 weeks is in Escanaba Michigan and info about their program is at: https://ncheschool.com/. He tells me the level 2 certification is about $16k. School is recognized by Michigan as a certified education program for whatever that means.

The other school is in Sun Prairie Wisconsin and has been around since 1959 and seems much more impressive with much more equipment, crane and CDL A certification. This school's program is 8 weeks and will require lodging for about $1600. The program costs about $18k and said it has various industry training certifications. Information about this school is at: https://www.operator-school.com/

With the economy a mess maybe it's not the best time to get into the construction industry and take on some student loans but he needs a skill set that will allow him to have a career and some mobility to move to where the economy is or will do better.

Any thoughts about the field, certification importance, certification to look for? Go union apprenticeship? I think deep down he's a blue collar guy and I'm just trying get some educated opinions before he signs up for something.

Thank you for your time and thoughts.

Hi, I recommend an IUOE apprenticeship. I went through the apprenticeship program and benefited greatly from it. If you're in Michigan he'd be appling in Local 324. Just because their training site is 150 miles away does not mean that's where he'd be all the time. He'd just be there for training.

Being an apprentice is hard work; you'll do a lot of crappy jobs and work your rear off, but in the long run it will make you a more experienced operator. That being said, you get out of it what you put into it. A plus to the apprenticeship program is he will not have any student loan debt. He would be getting paid to learn while on the job. Paying all that money for a school may teach you how to pull levers, but it doesn't guarantee a job. Honestly an 8 week course will give him just a taste of the industry. Bouncing between machines, especially cranes, in such a short timeframe will give him the bare basics, it will not make him an experienced operator.

Working on the non union side after going to a school would give him experience at one company doing the same type of work. A union apprentice will get rotated around to several contractors during his apprenticeship. He'll get to gain experience in anything from heavy civil, road work, paving, cranes, and even pipeline. Afterwards he could pursue the path that suits him best. There are MANY different career paths as an Operating Engineer.

Even with the economy at a standstill, construction in my area is booming. We have a TON of work going on right now and the work outlook for the next few years looks very good as well.

As far as certifications, I get mine through our locals training center. Personally I have- Class A cdl, OSHA 30, MSHA, 40hr Hazwoper, rigging, signalman, forklift, first aid/AED, and NCCCO. Contractors, especially the bigger ones are requiring certs for doing any type of specialized work. I don't see that changing anytime soon. If he really wants to be an operator I'd really recommend pursuing cranes and getting a NCCCO cert. There's a lot of crane work throughout the country and they are saying there is a shortage of crane operators. It does take a special type of person to do it though.

My advise would be have him call up the local and talk to the training coordinator and find out about the application process and see if it would be a good fit for him.

Why do you think he's a blue collar guy? That might be the most important question. Some people are better for certain jobs. Operating equipment can be heavy, dirty, noisy hard work with long hours and is not for everybody.

I've known him since he was in middle school, he's always been drawn to manual labor type jobs, construction helper, working in lumber mills, plowing snow, riding dirt bikes and mudding with big trucks, pulling cars out of the snow with tow ropes and using power equipment.

People we know up here are loggers, truckers, work in paper mills, etc. Imho I don't think he's cut out for office work and the delicate office politics and language required. He enjoys doing hard work and dosen't mind outdoors but I think he knows long term he needs a trade that will give him decent pay long term and not beat up his body stacking lumber at a mill for 30, 40 years. I encouraged him to look into the service, he decided he doesn't have good enough fine motor skills to be a good welder. He came to me about these two schools for heavy equipment, I didn't push him into this area. I don't know what to further tell you.

Thanks

For starters I would encourage him to get his OSHA 30, Competent person Trenching and Excavating, Confined Space and first aid/AED. All those certifications can be done online at his own time and not cost thousands of dollars. There are other certs that can be done online as well that pertain to the construction industry.

Next I would get a Class A CDL. With the certs above and a CDL he is already worth a few more $$ walking in the door.

Personally I think $16K for 3 weeks of training is highway robbery. We could OJT him for 3 weeks and he would know the same without any debt. We are not a union area so I have no experience with that route.

The commercial/ heavy civil markets is where he should look if he wants to be an operator as the pay scale is much better than residential.

Local 324 seems like a great program but its 450+ miles away in the Detroit area. Technically we're across the river in Wisconsin from Iron Mountain Michigan. Is that still the best option?

The IUOE locals (139, 420) in Wisconsin are both in the Milwaukee area about 250 miles away, should he look into those instead? Are most programs with IUOE equally good?

I'm going to get him a more reliable used car for these programs but things are tight for us up here and lodging costs are a consideration unless he makes enough just to get by with starting out.

Thanks

Sounds like operating equipment might be a good choice for him. 16K for 3 weeks of training is crazy.

I would guess a three week course would teach the average person how to check oil ,start machine ,move back and forth.

I went thru the IUOE Local 12 apprenticeship program and I am thankful that i did. However, beware of any union and it's political affiliation. I can remember as an apprentice going out on weekends and being forced to place political banners along roads and in front of peoples residences . At the time, I thought it was no big deal. I was out with union brothers doing the union thing so I could make the big bucks. That was all fine and dandy back then. I was only a sheep wanting to fit in with the "union" thing. But I'm a lot older and a little bit wiser and I am no longer willing to swallow their political agenda. I will never regret being an IUOE member as I will never ever cross a picket line. Its all good. The only thing I will have a problem with until the day I die is anyone, and I mean anyone...union brothers included dictating to me how I should vote. Not gonna happen brother. That said, the apprenticeship program is a great thing. I say go for it. But beware....be a man and don't let yourself get brainwashed into voting any other way than your heart/gut/mind tell you to.

School THEN A Union Apprenticeship would put him at the Upper choice lines for employment, The A CDL, Certs from online systems would show as a Positive to both school acceptance as well Union Apprenticeship as would already be showing diligent effort.

Has he thought about being a mechanic? I can give you some info on good programs if you’d like

As far as the operator route goes has he thought about talking to companies before signing up for a “school”? I’d find out what the area companies want before dropping money on school

I don’t have a good opinion of the privately operated “ HE Operator” schools. The schools have figured out how to take advantage of the student loan system and milk it to their advantage, while leaving their graduates on the hook for large loan amounts.

I would look first into your local Operating Engineers Apprenticeship program.

JD955SC said:

Has he thought about being a mechanic? I can give you some info on good programs if you’d like

As far as the operator route goes has he thought about talking to companies before signing up for a “school”? I’d find out what the area companies want before dropping money on school

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Good point. Our Cat dealer has a great "apprenticeship" program to train young ones who want to wrench with no student loans attached.

Coaldust said:

I don’t have a good opinion of the privately operated “ HE Operator” schools. The schools have figured out how to take advantage of the student loan system and milk it to their advantage, while leaving their graduates on the hook for large loan amounts.

I would look first into your local Operating Engineers Apprenticeship program.

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Financial Aid milking definitely seems to be the purpose of most of these private programs/schools.

The public tech college I got my diesel tech degree in also had a operators program. Going a votech route would be a lot cheaper whatever he goes with

CM1995 said:

Good point. Our Cat dealer has a great "apprenticeship" program to train young ones who want to wrench with no student loans attached.

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That’s the route I went. Two years (five semesters) was $5k, I paid my dealer $2000 total for five semesters of housing and they reimbursed me the tuition cost for working for them for 3 years and they also provided a decent starter set of tools as part of it. It was a good deal.

The schools here give you a certificate when your done the most useful thing it could do is start your camp fire I have been around a half dozen school trainees in the last 6 months and it should be illegal what they do to those kids because by the time the school is done with them they cant be taught anything.

Our local here really is not that great it's pretty weak there are not that many union contractors here so I really not in the know of there apprenticeship

If he is willing to work then he can work his into a job he will learn more in a month than at a school if your in union country then that's the way to go

IMHO schools are created for people who can't get a proper job and become teachers. Some written work methods I have seen are just dumb and at times dangerous but end up becoming an industry standard. With that being said if possible I suggest your young fella gets a job with a contractor starting as a labourer and moving up from there where he can learn and earn in the real world.

I highly recommend a career in the military or at least one enlistment. That helped me mature at an accelerated rate and set the stage for my career.

John Canfield said:

I highly recommend a career in the military or at least one enlistment. That helped me mature at an accelerated rate and set the stage for my career.

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I'll leave this one alone.

RollOver Pete said:

I'll leave this one alone.

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LOL