Won't charge or shut off

Hello!

I have a grey market CAT 305,
#305CDCR00532
Runs great, but 9 times out of 10 it won't shut down by the key.
Shuts down fine when I push the manual shut off at the fuel shut off solenoid.

The main issue though, is that the battery doesn't charge while the engine is running with the key in the run position, but as soon as I turn the key to the off position and the electronics switch off (engine keeps running) then the alternator charges the system perfectly.
Anybody understand what's going on here?

I've pulled the alternator and had it bench tested at a shop - tested good.
I've cleaned and/or replaced all the contacts at the alternator.
Replaced the ground cables at the battery and chassis.
Replaced the positive battery cable terminal at the battery and all the fuses test good.
The fuel shut off solenoid was replaced 100 hours ago because the machine used to charge but not shut down.
The new solenoid worked fine turning the ignition off consistently for about 20-30 hours before the key stopped shutting the machine down again.

Also, the alternator has a new belt installed with proper tension and the alternator dash light is good too.

Subtlevalley said:

The fuel shut off solenoid was replaced 100 hours ago because the machine used to charge but not shut down.
The new solenoid worked fine turning the ignition off consistently for about 20-30 hours before the key stopped shutting the machine down again.

Click to expand...

Did the battery charge correctly during that 20-30 hour period..?
Was the replacement shutoff solenoid you that installed a genuine Cat part or a "will fit"..?

Thanks for the reply!

I believe the battery did charge during those 20-30 hours.
Without the alternator charging properly this excavator tends to discharge a battery within a handful of starts.

I had a local mechanic order that part. I'm not sure wether it is genuine CAT.

I did a visual inspection yeaterday and the solenoid plunger doesnt move when the key is turned off.

I suggest that you contact him and ask the question.
If the alternator has not been changed (and has been checked off the machine and found to be good) then everything appears to point to the shutoff solenoid.
The Part Number appears to be a 315-4628. I'm cross-referencing that number from a non-grey import machine. I can't guarantee it 100% but the same number appears to be used across all the 303/304/305 (plus the applicable .5 versions) in both C & D models.

If you can provide a wiring schematic I might be able to assist.
Cheers

Key switch working as it should?

Thanks!
The alternator was pulled and checked by a shop as good.
It charges the battery great when I turn the key off and the electronics shut down, but the engine continues to run becasue the splenoid isn't shutting the engine down.
The mechanic is a fly by the seat of your pants style guy, and can't remember where the new fuel shut down solenoid came from. I'm going to pull it and bench test it to make sure it's not just a wiring problem.
Thanks for the part number. I have a parts manual here for this machine and the number is different, I'll post it here just in case it helps someone looking for future reference.
I did an info request at the dealer and they call this grey market machine a 305SR, even though the serial number doesbt reference it that way.

Solenoid Assembly #195-8411
Solenoid #195-8412

Subtlevalley said:

The mechanic is a fly by the seat of your pants style guy, and can't remember where the new fuel shut down solenoid came from.

Click to expand...

if he conveniently "can't remember" it probably came from eBay and is Chinese or something...... It may not even be the correct one. Do you still have the one that failed previously..?

Subtlevalley said:

Thanks for the part number. I have a parts manual here for this machine and the number is different, I'll post it here just in case it helps someone looking for future reference.

Click to expand...

Remember what I said about the P/N -The Part Number appears to be a 315-4628. I'm cross-referencing that number from a non-grey import machine. I can't guarantee it 100% but the same number appears to be used across all the 303/304/305 (plus the applicable .5 versions) in both C & D models."

What is the Publication Number on the cover of the Parts Manual you are using.? Better still take photos of the front and back covers and post them up.

195-8411 comes up on the system at $87.
195-8412 at $81.
Both are good numbers and are not superseded. See Ref. #3 on the illustration below. Does that look like yours..?


Quite frankly I think the best solution for you is to get hold of a competent auto-electriciian rather than a mechanic. He could probably sort the problem out in short order.

I sent you an electrical schematic that ought to be somewhat close to what's on your machine.

Thanks!
Very helpful.
I think you are right about hiring an auto electrician for this one. I'll see what services are available in my remote area.

Here's the parts manual I have, and the pic of the governor group with solenoid.

The key Is working to start the engine and power up and down the electronics, the lights all work.
Just doesn't shut down the engine when turned off.

I can see that's an English version (XEBGxxxx) of an originally Japanese-market (XJBGxxxx) Parts Manual. Judging from the sticker on the front it was specially ordered a few years ago, 2016 to be exact.
Parts Manual XEBG7481 does not exist in the online system.
The Part Numbers you have in post #8 above for the shutoff solenoid are correct.
I messed up by mis-reading your machine model from your OP as a 305C when in actually fact it's more akin to an early-model 305 of DGT or DSA Serial Number prefixes.

Thank you!
It's been a struggle piecing together the info for this machine and always felt like a gamble ordering parts. Good to get some more confirmation about it

have to wonder if the issue is related or if you have to separate problems..
my 304C CR wouldn't shut off either and I found the problem was the connector at the solenoid.. broken wire right at the connector.. looked okay but wasn't.. engine would fire right up but I needed to use the manual shutoff..

Bernie

I can't help but think that the charging when switched off/not charging when switched on issue is related to the alternator. It's fine & dandy to test it on a bench and declare it is making output but it's when it is installed in the machine and the excitation is supplied (or not) from the key switch that things could easily change. Could be the key switch, could be the alternator, and as stated above it could be two (or even three) totally separate problems. Hence my suggestion of an auto-sparky.........

Thanks, I’m grateful for all the effort and help!

It’s fixed now. I’m posting this follow up in case it helps anyone that’s stuck like this in the future.

The main culprit was the glow plug timer. It had failed and was stuck on. In healthy operation it would come on for 15 or 30 seconds to heat the glow plugs then turn off.
In this particular setup it seems the glow timer diverts power from the alternator.
So, when the glow timer is stuck on, the alternator receives no power and will not function.

That’s why, when I would disconnect the dash electronics circuit (which the glow timer is part of) the alternator would function again.

I learned this because the shutoff solenoid was not properly adjusted and so when I would turn the key to shutdown the engine, the electronics/dash would shut off, but the engine would keep running and the alternator would start working again.
I would the have to push the shutoff solenoid manually to shutdown the engine.

To sum it up, It was a combo of two problems. Glow timer failed (stuck on) and shutoff solenoid needing adjustment.

Sidenote: the glow timer for this machine is $500, and as I just use the machine around the homestead rather than commercially..
I decided to wire in a in cab manual switch for the glow plugs instead of replacing the timer.

Just a follow up on this ... glow plug timers are quite simple circuits and I've had some success repairing these. There are details on my website on how I repaired mine.

https://www.woodandtrees.co.uk/topics/mm30sr-glow-plug-timer-repair