Sooooo... How's everyone's quarantine going?

I'd charge for all the waiting time. Ask to get paid for all previous work and in this case ask for money up front or you won't do the job. Customers like that aren't worth having. They're just more trouble.

Pictures and a paper trail. Word of mouth is worthless these days. Very few deals can be made on a handshake anymore. Anything over a thousand dollars needs a signed contract.

Years ago, before I was in the business. If you got your driveway paved, they went in with the grader, and rolled all the grass and topsoil off to the sides, spread some gravel, and paved. Home owner was the one that cleaned up the mess. Years later they started cleaning up, and adding it into the price. We go in and paint out what we have on our plan. We always go a foot wider than what they pave so there is a six inch shoulder on each side. Mostly so the shoe on the spreader is not in the grass, but people don't like that explaination, so I tell them it to keep the edges of the pave from breaking. we used to cut the grass with sod cutters, but a cut off saw is a lot faster. Finished product has a gap on both sides. The customer is responsible to do whatever they want on both sides, but there have been a few that have refused to pay, until this is fixed, even though it was explained in the beginning. It has since been put in writing. We actually repossessed a driveway once. The guy had it paved, and refused to pay. No issues, just wasn't going to pay. After 5 years, which is pretty generous, the 320 cat went in, and when buddy got home from work, he had no more pave. We were still out the money, but he no longer had a paved driveway.

cuttin edge said:

I'm getting a boatload of tape measures as well. The surveyors at work will grab one from the shop that has metric and standard. They prefer the metric only, so they leave it with me. I always end up with them home at the end of the year.

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I too have multiple of the same tools. Yet sometimes I still fail to locate a tape measure when I need one. I think my biggest problem is I find one tool or item I prefer and use it regularly. When I misplace the one I normally use I spend lots of time trying to locate it. The fear/annoyance of not being able to locate the preferred tool can consume me; the oh no i lost it feeling.

I have a dual dimension tape measure and it has its place. I purchased it specifically to use at one of my old jobs. We would often work on metric and standard inch parts. It is rather difficult to read the tape measure from the other side. Frequently I had to reverse the tape measure to easily read the dimensions from the correct side. The best approach would be two separate units, but I didn't want to carry two. I dislike the tapes that have the fraction displayed on them. It confuses me.

Flat Thunder Channel said:

I too have multiple of the same tools. Yet sometimes I still fail to locate a tape measure when I need one. I think my biggest problem is I find one tool or item I prefer and use it regularly. When I misplace the one I normally use I spend lots of time trying to locate it. The fear/annoyance of not being able to locate the preferred tool can consume me; the oh no i lost it feeling.

I have a dual dimension tape measure and it has its place. I purchased it specifically to use at one of my old jobs. We would often work on metric and standard inch parts. It is rather difficult to read the tape measure from the other side. Frequently I had to reverse the tape measure to easily read the dimensions from the correct side. The best approach would be two separate units, but I didn't want to carry two. I dislike the tapes that have the fraction displayed on them. It confuses me.

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I get annoyed by standard an metric fasteners, especially on the same vehicle. My F150 has both

Metric or standard, I don't care. Its just a measurement system. They can use fractional furlongs for all I care. I carry a calculator that can switch from one to another easily.

I just want a common hardware system. The metric based systems fail badly. There is the European metric, ISO. The German's have their own, DIN. And then the Japanese have their own, JIS. Take a simple 10mm hex head screw. The Japanese will require a 15mm open end wrench, the Europeans a 16mm, and the Germans a 17mm. Then the Chinese use system was used in the original product they copied.

Then we get to the corporate low price whores like Deere. They will use all 3 metric systems on the same piece of equipment, and then add some metric components of their own design because they are used to inch based common hardware that isn't available in metric.

cuttin edge said:

Years ago, before I was in the business. If you got your driveway paved, they went in with the grader, and rolled all the grass and topsoil off to the sides, spread some gravel, and paved. Home owner was the one that cleaned up the mess. Years later they started cleaning up, and adding it into the price. We go in and paint out what we have on our plan. We always go a foot wider than what they pave so there is a six inch shoulder on each side. Mostly so the shoe on the spreader is not in the grass, but people don't like that explaination, so I tell them it to keep the edges of the pave from breaking. we used to cut the grass with sod cutters, but a cut off saw is a lot faster. Finished product has a gap on both sides. The customer is responsible to do whatever they want on both sides, but there have been a few that have refused to pay, until this is fixed, even though it was explained in the beginning. It has since been put in writing. We actually repossessed a driveway once. The guy had it paved, and refused to pay. No issues, just wasn't going to pay. After 5 years, which is pretty generous, the 320 cat went in, and when buddy got home from work, he had no more pave. We were still out the money, but he no longer had a paved driveway.

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Hopefully you pulled the crushed base out too

Ronsii said:

Hopefully you pulled the crushed base out too

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No he got the 3/4 minus plus 10 loads of sand stone. We lost money all around, but he lost his pave, and had the neighborhood talking about him. Funny thing, one of his neighbors got her driveway done the following summer, and said " Don't worry, I'll pay right away."

Welder Dave said:

I'd charge for all the waiting time. Ask to get paid for all previous work and in this case ask for money up front or you won't do the job. Customers like that aren't worth having. They're just more trouble.

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I know he won't pay for it, the only way i'd collect for it would be liening the property and going that way.

cuttin edge said:

Pictures and a paper trail. Word of mouth is worthless these days. Very few deals can be made on a handshake anymore. Anything over a thousand dollars needs a signed contract.

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Yea I always take pictures before/after jobs so I have proof I did them and what I did. For small things I do sometimes rely on texts, which is nice to have stuff in some form of writing at least. Yea I need to get that way for any new customers, I have a few who I still trust but still think it would be better.

I had asked a lawyer about a real bulletproof contract, problem is no one is going to sign a 3 page contract for a basement excavation. I think it needs to be half a page and in regular people wording easy for anyone to understand, not lawyer talk and then it would be fine.

Look in the archives on here. I think some simple contracts were discussed.

cuttin edge said:

Years ago, before I was in the business. If you got your driveway paved, they went in with the grader, and rolled all the grass and topsoil off to the sides, spread some gravel, and paved. Home owner was the one that cleaned up the mess. Years later they started cleaning up, and adding it into the price. We go in and paint out what we have on our plan. We always go a foot wider than what they pave so there is a six inch shoulder on each side. Mostly so the shoe on the spreader is not in the grass, but people don't like that explaination, so I tell them it to keep the edges of the pave from breaking. we used to cut the grass with sod cutters, but a cut off saw is a lot faster. Finished product has a gap on both sides. The customer is responsible to do whatever they want on both sides, but there have been a few that have refused to pay, until this is fixed, even though it was explained in the beginning. It has since been put in writing. We actually repossessed a driveway once. The guy had it paved, and refused to pay. No issues, just wasn't going to pay. After 5 years, which is pretty generous, the 320 cat went in, and when buddy got home from work, he had no more pave. We were still out the money, but he no longer had a paved driveway.

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That's a awesome way to do it. I think i'm too cheap for that though, i'd go the legal route of liening and suing to collect. Or maybe a few times a concrete block ends up on the driveway blocking access.....

Years ago when I did concrete with my dad there was the odd person who would complain about their lawn beside the driveway, depending how it worked out 1-2" of gap from the lawn to the driveway and they'd refused to pay until it was filled in. Just stupid.

suladas said:

That's a awesome way to do it. I think i'm too cheap for that though, i'd go the legal route of liening and suing to collect. Or maybe a few times a concrete block ends up on the driveway blocking access.....

Years ago when I did concrete with my dad there was the odd person who would complain about their lawn beside the driveway, depending how it worked out 1-2" of gap from the lawn to the driveway and they'd refused to pay until it was filled in. Just stupid.

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Loads of stumps/demo/etc... also works great or at least you get some sort of satisfaction out of it... although I really wouldn't know anyone that has done that.....

cuttin edge said:

Years ago, before I was in the business. If you got your driveway paved, they went in with the grader, and rolled all the grass and topsoil off to the sides, spread some gravel, and paved. Home owner was the one that cleaned up the mess. Years later they started cleaning up, and adding it into the price. We go in and paint out what we have on our plan. We always go a foot wider than what they pave so there is a six inch shoulder on each side. Mostly so the shoe on the spreader is not in the grass, but people don't like that explaination, so I tell them it to keep the edges of the pave from breaking. we used to cut the grass with sod cutters, but a cut off saw is a lot faster. Finished product has a gap on both sides. The customer is responsible to do whatever they want on both sides, but there have been a few that have refused to pay, until this is fixed, even though it was explained in the beginning. It has since been put in writing. We actually repossessed a driveway once. The guy had it paved, and refused to pay. No issues, just wasn't going to pay. After 5 years, which is pretty generous, the 320 cat went in, and when buddy got home from work, he had no more pave. We were still out the money, but he no longer had a paved driveway.

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If you tried that here you could get charged with theft or vandalism. If the work was done through the county could likely add it to the taxes or put a lien on the property. My mom had a couple of room mates in her apt. When she went on holidays the other renters changed the locks and denied her access to her own apartment. My mom went to the police and they said they couldn't help her get her stuff back because she wasn't the owner. I was shocked by that and went and asked at another police station. They were surprised too and said the other renters couldn't keep my moms property but could sue her if they thought she owed them money. A couple weeks later they gave her a few boxes of stuff but kept all her furniture. As much as you'd like to undue a job for non payment you can't. You have to go through legal channels and sue for the money owed or you could be charged.

Welder Dave said:

If you tried that here you could get charged with theft or vandalism. If the work was done through the county could likely add it to the taxes or put a lien on the property. My mom had a couple of room mates in her apt. When she went on holidays the other renters changed the locks and denied her access to her own apartment. My mom went to the police and they said they couldn't help her get her stuff back because she wasn't the owner. I was shocked by that and went and asked at another police station. They were surprised too and said the other renters couldn't keep my moms property but could sue her if they thought she owed them money. A couple weeks later they gave her a few boxes of stuff but kept all her furniture. As much as you'd like to undue a job for non payment you can't. You have to go through legal channels and sue for the money owed or you could be charged.

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The company was started by a fella in 1945, he gave it to his son, and he gave it to his three sons. One brother sold out and the two remain. The oldest is the brains and the backbone of the company. In 22 years he has only raised his voice to me three times. It's always fleeting, and he calms down quickly. Most of the men here would do anything for him. He has a daughter, and she is a lawyer in Montreal. He is the one that allowed the guy to go for 5 years, and when they happened to meet, he offered him a payment option. Buddy basicly told him to get lost, he wasn't getting a cent. The last straw. The other brother... I have quit on him at least ten times. Needs to find someone to blame for anything, looks for conflict, impossible to work for. Couldn't organise a gum chewing party. Two boys, and one girl, and the future of the company is falling pretty hard on their shoulders. Tried to talk his big brother out of doing the repo. Got my crew and I to go in after the repo, and give it quick grade before buddy got home. Was also worried about getting sued. Nothing ever came from it.

cuttin edge said:

The company was started by a fella in 1945, he gave it to his son, and he gave it to his three sons. One brother sold out and the two remain. The oldest is the brains and the backbone of the company. In 22 years he has only raised his voice to me three times. It's always fleeting, and he calms down quickly. Most of the men here would do anything for him. He has a daughter, and she is a lawyer in Montreal. He is the one that allowed the guy to go for 5 years, and when they happened to meet, he offered him a payment option. Buddy basicly told him to get lost, he wasn't getting a cent. The last straw. The other brother... I have quit on him at least ten times. Needs to find someone to blame for anything, looks for conflict, impossible to work for. Couldn't organise a gum chewing party. Two boys, and one girl, and the future of the company is falling pretty hard on their shoulders. Tried to talk his big brother out of doing the repo. Got my crew and I to go in after the repo, and give it quick grade before buddy got home. Was also worried about getting sued. Nothing ever came from it.

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When people don't pay their bills for work that was done and use some legal BS to convince themselves and...others that they are right and don't need to pay bills that THEY owe - it's outright theft!!! And one thing I hate more than about anything is thieves.

Welder Dave said:

If you tried that here you could get charged with theft or vandalism.

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If the quotation/tender for the work clearly stated "all supplied materials remain the property of the contractor until payment for the work has been made by the customer" (or words to that effect) I would argue the customer who refused to pay doesn't have a leg to stand on. All the contractor would be doing under those circumstances would be removing his own property. How can someone steal something that they already own.?

cuttin edge said:

No he got the 3/4 minus plus 10 loads of sand stone. We lost money all around, but he lost his pave, and had the neighborhood talking about him. Funny thing, one of his neighbors got her driveway done the following summer, and said " Don't worry, I'll pay right away."

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I had a guy years ago in Marina that we drove piles for,he asked for some extras over the quote then refused to pay. I talked to the lawyer i knew at the time and realized legal remedies were futile. I then threatened to pile the piles and he laughed at me so i fired up the tug and hooked on to the first 4 pile dolphin and jerked it out then went to the next and got it. His eyes were wide by that time as i threatened to demo the rest of the marina. He wrote the check for the quote and i got the extra piles back and a huge feeling of satisfaction. his next expansion cost him double with the other pile drivers and we all laughed.

Nige said:

If the quotation/tender for the work clearly stated "all supplied materials remain the property of the contractor until payment for the work has been made by the customer" (or words to that effect) I would argue the customer who refused to pay doesn't have a leg to stand on. All the contractor would be doing under those circumstances would be removing his own property. How can someone steal something that they already own.?

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It would be nice if it worked that way but I think in the eyes of the court you would have to sue for payment. If it was an item maybe the item could be returned the same like a vehicle gets repossessed. The other option would be to put a lien on the property. Would make it impossible to sell until the lien was paid.

I actually went through this. I took a flail mower to cut some 3' high grass in a former outdoor horse riding ring. Job took about 3 1/2 hours. The lady at the house said she had to go into town but would be back in a couple hours. I waited over an hour after I finished the job and she never showed up. I left a bill inside the screen door. I tried several times to call her over the next couple of days and no answer or return of my calls. The bad thing for her was she was cleaning the property up to sell it and there was a realtors sign on the front lawn. I drove back out, got the realtors number and in a couple hours got a call from the owner with a bunch of lame excuses but the cheque was is in the mail. The realtor was pretty understanding and I'm sure knew I could hold up the sale and it wasn't some run of the mill house. I'd guess it was at least a $750,000 log home on 40 acres. Had it not been for sale I thought an accidental spill of Roundup on the lawn might be appropriate. I think she got the property in a divorce and couldn't keep up with the payments.

Still NO excuse for her to stiff you for the work!!! any decent human being should have been up front about it... or at least answer your calls and try to make some arrangements to pay after the sale... there are plenty of ways she could have dealt with it honestly and not be a lowlife.

A lien only takes some time and aggravation. I've dropped a couple of them on developers and locked them out of any sales until I removed them. Once they get notice, they usually pay pretty quick. The trouble spots are the ones who aren't going to go anywhere for some time. I like the verbiage from Nige though. Like the lien it takes some aggravation but the satisfaction of killing a machine or ripping out a driveway would be worth it. And it sends a message to everybody else that you are pretty crazy when you don't get paid.