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Case Engine A-336-BD

thepumpguysc

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
7,516
Location
Sunny South Carolina
Occupation
Master Inj.Pump rebuilder
an easy "side note" to pulling the pump off is..if its the in-line 4cyl. pump.??
Remove the side cover on the pump.. rotate the engine IN THE CORRECT ROTATION & look inside at the #1 tappet.. wait for it to START TO RISE.. THATS #1 compression stroke..
Then.. follow the book for timing * setting before pulling it..
 

Grippo87

New Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Messages
2
Location
Adirondacks ny
Thanks for the info. It's pouring today so tomorrow after work I'll get into it. My number 1 plunger is stuck and from the fuel that the previous owner was running before I cleaned out the tank I'm certain why. It is a 4 cyl. so I'll use the above advice.
 

BBlak

New Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2020
Messages
1
Location
Calgary
Hello Tinkerer,

Would you mind sending over the A-336-BD manual over to my email: btcon at telus.net?

We took apart the engine and we can't time it :(.

Thank you in advance!
 

bruce maclennan

Active Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2020
Messages
27
Location
pei
when you take a 336 out how much changing do you have to do like fit at rad and fly wheel to tourque to put 5.9 cummins in
 

Randy88

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
2,149
Location
iowa
What are you putting it in? If its going into a case dozer, say 850 size, it just fits. The changing comes to machine the flywheel to fit the flex plate and to weld nuts onto the flex plate so you can bolt the engine to the transmission. The radiator is fit last so the fan blades just miss the radiator when its running and the radiator shroud lines up correctly, if I recall, we might have had to make a new shroud but I'd have to look for sure.

If its a dozer retrofit for a 5.9 I can help you out somewhat, I've done one a few years ago, its not that hard, but there are a few critical things you need to know before hand and the flywheel is vital.
 

bruce maclennan

Active Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2020
Messages
27
Location
pei
its a 5.9 housing is out of truck stater on wrong side, what housing did you use on dozer about 21 in cummins about 18 thanks
 

Randy88

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
2,149
Location
iowa
First off if its out of a truck, same as mine was, did the engine have an automatic transmission behind it when it was in a truck?? If so depending on which allision it was, there is a thickness puck on the end of crankshaft that needs to be taken off before you do anything else.

Next, depending on what or if the torque converter is the original or has had something different put in will depend on what bell housing you need.

3.9 and the 5.9 engines take the same bell housings and flywheels, if the torque converter is original or a direct replacement for what was in the dozer originally, what you need for a bell housing and flywheel will come off of a 1845C case skid steer and bolt right up, now the flywheels for the skid steer, they made at least two different ones over the years, maybe even three, only one will work for the flex plate on the torque converter. I never took pictures or got a serial number to know which one you'll need, but by looking you can tell pretty close, most salvage yards can get both the bell housing and flywheel you'll need.

To help tell which flywheel, one if I recall had a ridge around the outside of the flywheel and one was flat with a slight taper towards the center, the flat face one with no ridge is the one you need.

If I recall, the flex plate is bolted to the flywheel on the case engine and the bolts go in from the torque converter side, on the cummins the bolts have to go in from the engine side through a side cover on the left side of the engine I believe and in order to make it work, nuts have to be welded on the the flex plate because there is no cover on the backside of the cummins flywheel to put the nuts on after the bolts are installed.

Now for the technical parts, the bell housing needs to be bolted onto the engine, flywheel installed, flex plate bolted onto the torque converter ready to bolt engine to torque. Either you or a machinist needs to measure exactly the distance from the flex plate to the torque housing, and the same from the bell housing to the face of the flywheel, then machine down the flywheel so they are PRECISE when they are bolted together, can't recall right off how many thousands need to be machined off the face of the flywheel to make it work. That is the only critical part of the whole deal, no other flywheel will work according to cummins to get that engine to bolt to that torque converter, if I recall, the d model 850 has a different torque in it to bolt to the cummins that came factory in that dozer.

Now be for warned, there can be absolutely no end pressure on the crankshaft of the cummins engine, so if you screw up with the measurement and machine off either too little or too much and end up with some end pressure on the crank, the engine will lock up upon starting it once in the dozer and more or less spin the main bearings instantly.

The rest is pretty simple and straight forward once the engine is bolted to the torque, then its just a matter of making the engine mounts to fit the cummins, install the accessories on the engine, then depending on which injection pump is on the engine, you might have to bolt some shims under the left front side cover so the injection lines don't rub due the pump sticking out a little more on the cummins than the case.

Depending on how far you have the dozer torn apart, it would also be a good idea to put the old engine back in, bolt the torque up and take measurements so the torque is the same distance from the transmission once you have the cummins in, also take a measurement of the height of the drive shaft from somewhere so the angle is the same with the cummins. I'd have to look, but I think the driveshaft runs level from the torque to the transmission, can't recall the distance from the torque converter to the transmission right off hand either.

I converted the dozer from 24 volt to 12 volt when we did the engine swap, since 12 volt starters were a dime a dozen and 24 volts were high priced and scarce.

I'm not sure what else I can help with, if you can't find a bell housing off a skid steer, I think any bell housing off most any case backhoe with a 3.9 cummins in it, is the same bell housing, but don't quote me on that, I've done quite a few repowers over the years and I might be getting engines confused somewhat on parts. If you have any other questions, let me know, I'll help do what I can, it just might take me a while to get back to you, we're really busy right now.
 

Randy88

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
2,149
Location
iowa
Also forgot to mention, if the dozer has a reversible fan on the case engine and you want to keep that on the cummins engine, you need to know the distance from the fan to the radiator, this is important because as you turn the fan blades around, the blade itself actually gets closer to the radiator, that measurement is critical to know because if you don't have the measurement from the transmission to the torque converter exact from when the old case engine was installed and keep it the same when the cummins in installed, you can't turn the fan blades around once the radiator is installed due to not having enough room in the engine compartment. My dozer had a reversible fan on it, they all do and I use and love them and refused to give it up, so to make a long story short, the distance from the fan blades to the radiator was reduced to the bare minimum in order to keep the reversible fan on the cummins engine and still get everything to fit under the hood.

If you look at and measure a D model 850, the measurements won't be the same as a C model, most all D's were long track, meaning they had one more bottom roller under them making the engine compartment slightly longer to make everything fit better and have more room to work with.

Not sure what truck this engine came out of, but you'll more than likely need to turn the oil pan around in order to get it to fit over the cross member of the dozer frame, then you'll also need to buy a different oil pickup tube as well and just turn the pan itself around.

If it has a deep oil pan from a truck, you'll also need to torch out some of the belly pan gussets on one section of belly pan to get them to fit back up on and the oil drain hole will no longer line up with the one in the belly pans. The dip stick tube needs to be shortened as well and cut off the dip stick and etch a new oil level mark on the shortened dip stick, that and you'll need to move the dipstick tube to a different hole to fit into the oil pan once you flip the pan around, then replug the old tube hole. Once done I cut a square hole in the lower side panel and made it into a hinged door to get at the dip stick to check the oil, the reason the longer tube won't work is the truck version has a wider arch and it won't fit under the hood once the engine is in, a short cut off version then fits under the injection pump and is out of the way of everything, but you need the hole in the lower side panel to use it and be able to pull the dipstick out. Later versions that came from the factory with the 5.9 in, had a longer tube mounted through and around the injection pump and you pulled them from a cover in the top of the hood or the H model had a whole side panel flip up to access the dipstick.

Most any injection pump guy can change over the governor on the injection pump to make it work instead of truck governor to a machine governor and also ask that person how to adjust the governor for idling once its in the dozer in order to get it to idle down fast so you can shift the dozer, they work fine, just takes some adjusting to get it to work right.

If I recall the exhaust manifold we just flipped over so the exhaust sticks up instead of down but won't line up with the pipe going out of the hood. I just made an adapter that slipped over the exhaust manifold that had an offset in it that lined up the exhaust to the old pipe in the hood, was simpler than dinking around with the hood to get it to line up, also if you ruin or damage the hood, any hood off any older case 850 will then work and just bolt right on. I also don't have a muffler on mine, its just a straight piped up and out of the engine compartment. The D and later models have a muffler that attaches to the manifold and a larger hole is cut into the hood to accommodate it, newer versions still have a small muffler under the hood, on a C model you won't have the room to make this work unless you cut a hole in the hood and mount it directly onto the manifold like the D model or flex pipe it out and mount the muffler along the limb risers or something like that. I wear hearing protection anyhow, so I didn't take the time to worry about a muffler and still don't have one, the six cylinder cummins sounds really nice under a load the way it is.

You'll need your injection pump guy reset the pump and injectors down to have 90-100 hp, much more and you'll tear the torque and transmission up, think mine is in that 100 hp mark and runs really nice.

You'll lose your tachometer when you do the swap, the case was a mechanical drive and if you want, you can get the electric drive off the alternator and switch the gauge in the dash, but it didn't matter to me. You'll need an adapter to switch the hose ends from the case pressure switch which is standard pipe thread to either metric off the cummins or vise versa, I just had a hose made up to fit the pressure switch on one end and a metric to fit the engine oil galley on the other end, so the hour meter and gauges will work right.

The wiring is pretty simple as well, just make up a new harness to go from the alternator to the dash through the pressure switch, we just mounted the circuit breakers which will be on the right side of the old engine, and bolted them up near the dash when we put the cummins in. I'd have to look again how it was done but if you get an alternator that is self exciting, like most trucks have, it eliminates a lot of wiring and headaches. If I recall, I just took the alternator that came with the cummins in and my fix it guy switched it over to self exciting and put new bearings and went through it for me.

If the truck had air brakes and an air pump on it, we just took the pump off and bolted a plate over the hole with a gasket, looks factory installed when it was done. For future reference, that cam drive for the air compressor on the cummins, is much cheaper to put a new hydraulic pump on rather than use the old hydraulic pump off the torque converter, also a whole lot easier to work on and get to verses the one on the torque converter or if you need it for a winch drive or something along those lines in the future.

Best of luck, it sounds a whole lot more detailed than it really is, the main things to bear in mind are the measurements you'll need before you begin. My issues came when we were part way done and the sheets of paper those measurements were on, got lost and nobody could remember them exactly, so we put the old case engine back in to get them the second time and then wrote them in marker on one of the side panels, but those were painted over once the engine was done and working.
 

westek12

Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
8
Location
midwest
I have it in a .pdf document. I can email it to you but, you have to have three posts in the forums before your email address is accessible to the members. Do some looking in the tractor/loader/backhoe forum for 336 info. and its twin the 301 engine.

Dear Tinkerer,

I'm also in need of a service manual for the Case 336 engine & ran across this post in my search.

Would you please be so kind as to send me a copy of this service manual as well? If you could I'd be externally grateful to you sir.

My email address is

westek12@yahoo.com

My thanks,

Wes
 

Randy88

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
2,149
Location
iowa
Those engines were notorious for cavitation at the bottom of the sleeves, which by itself is not a big deal and can be fixed by counter boring the block and pressing in a new insert.

As far as I know, the engine balancer on those engines are obsolete and once worn out, the engine is basically junk. The 336 by itself was a great engine, with the balancer that was on it, it idled much slower than most four cylinder engines did and was basically vibration free, which made for shifting in the dozer smooth, it also had the ability to do slopes of up and over 70 degree's and not starve the engine for oil. When case quit providing parts and especially the balancer for that engine, most would not be willing to bore, press inserts into the block and rebuild them if in say 100 hours later the balancer went bad and then be forced to repower the dozer with something else anyhow.

I'd been around a few 850's repowered with the 3.9 cummins and for some reason due to only about one version of the 3.9 being able to do slopes of not quite 70 degree's and the fact it shook more and idled just a couple hundred rpm's more, shifting wasn't as nice and smooth as it is with a 5.9.

It gets to the point in time, is the dozer worth the upgrade, in my machine, the transmission was rebuilt a few hundred hours before, new undercarriage was installed at that same time, one final was gone through and the torque was done all at the same time frame or there about. So one final to go and was the 336 going to last another 8-10k hours?? I didn't think so, found a 5.9 for a couple grand, which was a fraction of what I'd have in the old 336 once all said and done, so what the heck, spend a few months off and on in the winter and repower it a known engine I could get parts for and have a really great reputation, then instead of only have one or two 336's left in my fleet, one less and only one more 5.9 or about a dozen of them in total now, so why not update. The dozer as it sat with a bad 336 was scrap price the way it was, with a 5.9 in it will run a long time and if needing overhauled, done pretty cheap when needed. If the rest of the dozer was worn out end to end, I'd have never bothered with doing the repower, just found a newer version 850 with a 5.9 already in it and rebuilt that dozer instead. Guess its a personal call and what you want to do and how you want to spend to your time. Myself I had about three local guys who'd done the repowers over the years with both the 3.9 and 5.9, one is a rep for cummins and still is today, so I had everyone and everything I needed locally to help advise me and also answer questions on what does or doesn't work. Most everything I typed is what I was told, so I just passed on the information.

I've repowered other machines with 5.9's out of trucks or bus's mostly and had great luck doing it so far, have a few more to do even if I ever get around to it, but unlike this dozer, those machines are still in debate if they are worth doing the repower or not. If I stumbled across some used 5.9's in good shape and had some time over a winter, I'd probably do them, time will tell, and yes one involves another and my last 336 case.

I also have my eye on a farmall M that I'd like to put either a 3.9 or 5.9 into, just because I could and I'd always wanted to do it and no other reason than its on my bucket list.
 

westek12

Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
8
Location
midwest
Check your email inbox westek !
Hey Tinkerer, thanks for your quick response. Unfortunately the email you sent isn't showing up in my Yahoo inbox or spam folder so I'm going to give you my Gmail address instead. If you don't mind could you please resend it to me at:

wxxxxxxx@xmail.com

Thank you my friend.

Wes
 
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