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lower pin for hydraulic cylinder on bucket arm nearest cab - won't extract

cjdgeorge

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Mar 27, 2020
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Oxford
IMG_4048.JPG OK guys REALLY appreciate the input. I just have to get this machine fixed one way or the other as I am going stir crazy with all this work due to be done (yes isolated in woodland with only the two old gits her both over 70 but keen to get on with it) and the supplier shop shutting up till mid April - and here was I thinking I had got 2 weeks extra hire! So took some better photos and put on thinking cap.
This is the inside with the cap (not bolt - not banjo - just an end cap) taken off and showing a circular (not hex) "connection/join" with the main cylinder
IMG_4050.JPG



This is the end cap You can see the copper break just visible having straightened it somewhat from say 12 degree angle to about 5 degrees off perpendicular
IMG_4048.JPG

From the side sorry about the focus
IMG_4051.JPG

Internal view


IMG_4050.JPG

To my uneducated eye it looks like either a press fit in the factory
or
One piece with the main cylinder which would be a mindless design (you never know!)

anyway it looks like a specialist repair with special tools

or

brazing and soldering
Given its location at the end of the garden 100 from the house, it looks as if it is necessary to get that bloody pin out so I will turn to that whilst others digest this new non-banjo info

Chris
with appreciation to all those contributing and apologies for the photos
 

cjdgeorge

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Joined
Mar 27, 2020
Messages
16
Location
Oxford
Absolutely, may be a 73 year old git past his prime but was taking motorbikes apart and making combos back in the early 1960s with a chap who raced bikes called Ernie Barratt. I even checked the grease nipple knowing it was not even remotely likely to be intruding. Next plan is a blow lamp. That (and the PTFE) shows how desperate I am! This exploded diagram is MOST helpufl
 

Nige

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G..G..G..Granville.........!! Fetch your cloth.
Looks like what appeared at first sight to be a banjo bolt that the bottom end of the banjo part might well be friction-welded to the cylinder barrel.
It's the most likely way I could see it being attached looking at the photos.

Try soaking around the pin in penetrating oil and leave it for a while. Repeat and beat with FBH as required to keep moving the pin back and forth the little bit it will move at the moment to let the penetrating fluid do its job.
 
Last edited:

Delmer

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Jan 3, 2013
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I still think this fitting is like the diagram in post #19, it looks like the threads go all the way through that center section of the fitting, and there should be a seal and threads on the piece that is welded to the cylinder. Did you try to unscrew the fitting in question? with a pipe wrench(plumbing spanner?)

It's obviously not a standard banjo fitting where the bolt goes through the fitting, but looks like you could unscrew that fitting, flip it over and put it right back in place (not accomplishing anything, except maybe changing the "clock" of the fitting). I think, there's still a seal in there, plus you'll need to get ALL the oil off that fitting to have any chance of soldering/brazing it.

you tell me what the inside of that fitting looks like, you've got a better view of it. I was sure from that first picture that you had a hex fitting against the cylinder, oops.
 

Nige

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G..G..G..Granville.........!! Fetch your cloth.
I still think this fitting is like the diagram in post #19, it looks like the threads go all the way through that center section of the fitting, and there should be a seal and threads on the piece that is welded to the cylinder.
I understand your logic. The design seems very unusual to say the least. But if it was screwed into the cylinder barrel wouldn't it be shown as a separate part on the exploded diagram..? See snip below. The fitting on the other end of the barrel is shown the same way, the only separate parts are the plug and the O-Ring. I'm still thinking it's most likely to be friction-welded to the barrel. A look down the hole ought to confirm that.

upload_2020-3-28_17-7-49.png
 

Delmer

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I've never seen one like this, so just guessing. Maybe the collar is welded to the cylinder, and the fitting with short nipple is brazed into that short collar on the cylinder.

It also looks in some of the pictures like what I'm calling a banjo fitting isn't symetrical, it's got more fitting above the tee than below the tee, but that could be the way it looks with the bend?

Best way to tell will be inside the fitting, it should be easy enough to tell if the threads end, or are threaded onto another threaded piece.

edit: I can't tell what I'm seeing in the pictures, one looks like the threads end, another looks like the threads might continue under the end of an inner piece, and it looks like the bottom of the port could be blocked just like the top of the port will be by the plug protruding into the center of the outlet to the side of that fitting. Need to see it in person.
 
Last edited:

Bls repair

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Jan 21, 2017
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When you move cylinder does the pin move with it?
 

Swetz

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I think Nige is correct. I have seen this style on an older piece of equipment. I have also seen the fitting welded in place. Have even seen the welded style leak at the welds. Do you think he could cut this fitting off (after dissembling and cleaning) and tap for a standard pipe thread fitting, screw the fitting in, then weld. Would have to make sure it didnt protrude into the cylinder, if the seal passes that point.
 

Delmer

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If it's not threaded and screwed on, then there's no seal left inside, and you could try to solder/braze that fitting again in place.

Then it would be fixed back to original condition, it "might" get a little dusty in the next couple weeks, get forgotten about accidentally, if it fails down the road who's going to remember? I wouldn't mess with modifying something permanent on a rental, though if they see this, would they try to fix the fitting or scrap the whole cylinder? There's not going to be a replacement cylinder available with the shut down, so what good does it do to get the pin out?
 

cjdgeorge

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Mar 27, 2020
Messages
16
Location
Oxford
No offence at all Tinkerer. Just very grateful. After all I am the idiot that thought I might be able to block it with PTFE from the inside
 

Swetz

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yea, kinda slipped my mind that it was rented...If it were his, maybe.
 
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