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DIFFERENT CAT DEALER PRICING?

Welder Dave

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Oct 11, 2014
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I don't think at the dealer level it should be buyer beware as to who to talk to. When I was looking at a landplane I spoke with a salesman I knew at the JD dealer. He thought I was talking about one for a skid steer. When I explained it was for a 3pt. hitch, he directed me to one of the AG salesmen because he was an industrial salesman. It would have been easy commission for him but wasn't in his product range. A lot of places salesman have specific territory and can't sell in another salesman's territory even it's someone they've dealt with in the past. The odd thing with JD here is the AG dealer can sell skid steers, small wheel loaders and attachments. About 10 blocks away is the JD construction dealer who sells the same skid steers, wheel loaders and attachments. I priced out some corn head grease just for comparison and it was about a buck more at the construction dealer.

I don't think it's as critical on the small undercarriage. When you get into the bigger machines that are working all the time can make a big difference. If I recall my rollers were around $130 at the time. Cat were around $200. I didn't think 50% more cost would result in 50% more life. ITR I think is generally considered good undercarriage.
 

AllDodge

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Apr 2, 2011
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2,287
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Kentucky
Bought my ITR products thru CAT and got it cheaper because I didn't have to pay freight.

IF anyone goes that route, do count parts ASAP, mine was shipped short and by the time I installed CAT said they could do nothing about it.
 

John C.

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Jun 11, 2007
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Buying in bulk used to get better prices as well. I haven't done it in years but used to buy in case lots for filters. It wasn't uncommon to get more than a third off the list price for buying one of more cases at a time.
 

Coaldust

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May 9, 2011
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North of the 60
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Cargo Tanks, ULSD, RUG, Methanol, LPG
Someone earlier mentioned receiving better pricing for Cat parts from truck dealerships vs the local Cat store. That’s been my experience, as well.

Many truck dealers have Caterpillar TEPS agreements with the local Caterpillar dealer. The price difference is about 10% in my area. Plus, the truck dealer often provides better service and will deliver for free.

Truck parts only. Of, course some stuff crosses over, but you certainly can’t purchase GET or U/C parts.
 

Tyler d4c

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Mar 2, 2016
Messages
1,750
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Salix Pa
Dave, it's all about who gets the commission on the sale.
Right or wrong the Parts guy is not likely to send a customer to another group and lose his group's commission on a sale.
Caveat emptor - buyer beware. Or in other words do your research first.

Tyler, Suggest you call and ask to speak to the U/C PSSR. Let him come and do a complete U/C measurement (it's free) and see what the recommendations come from the report. If you then ask the PSSR to quote for you on the basis of the report's recommendations, he will. It's in his area of responsibility.
There's on small problem with there inspection I'm not sure they would know what there looking at it has 4 different brands of parts on it now and it's not exactly OEM spec.
 

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Welder Dave

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Most aftermarket is built to OEM specs. and it shouldn't matter if you're considering buying from Cat. Didn't realize you were talking about a CTL though. I think unless the Cat was pretty close in price the ITR would be fine.
 

Tyler d4c

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Mar 2, 2016
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Salix Pa
Most aftermarket is built to OEM specs. and it shouldn't matter if you're considering buying from Cat. Didn't realize you were talking about a CTL though. I think unless the Cat was pretty close in price the ITR would be fine.
Keep in mind this machine is on steel tracks derived from a 931 with some 299d parts involved the bottom rollers are d3/931 rollers
 

Kartal

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Mar 21, 2020
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Turkey
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Mechanical engineer
Well known aftermarket brands meet or exceed the genuine quality standards. Aftermarket ITR undercarriage has the similar lifetime with genuine, their track links are all made in Korea, I've visited ITR facilities in Modena/Italy some years ago. Donaldson and Fleetguard filters also good, we don't prefer to increase the costs with genuine ones. For Caterpillar engine cylinder heads we use Ghinassi, perfect quality. Japan made Rikin piston rings, Miba (Austria) and Clevite engine bearings meet genuine standards. In Turkey we've good prices as well, from the local manufacturer 234-0605 (transmission case assy for 980H), price 7310 USD, Caterpillar dealer list price about 30000 USD, big difference.
 

rmllarue91

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Apr 16, 2014
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northeast pa
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field technician
It's amazing how one person can have totally different experiences with same products 400x300px.png I've had three really bad experiences with there quality. This was all for same customer.
I installed 3408 head found casting needed to be ground out 3/8" of inch to fit pushrod ( they made me grind on engine ) it still runs today's. 980c planetary cover wouldn't fit in hub ( also grinder they don't like waiting ) and lastly had pins 3 thousands to big and flanges for center pins fall off ( no weld penetration ) it's not fun when a haul truck splits itself in knee high mud. Other than them instances....
 

DefenderHD

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Mar 25, 2018
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61
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Alberta Canada
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Heavy Duty Mechanic
There are defiantly places in the equipment world that you can get away with jobber/aftermarket pats. I am preparing to go up to the yukon for another season and we have two out of eight haul trucks that need the balls replaced or shims removed between the diff carrier and truck frame. the parts from cat are ridiculous. I managed to find cat surplus parts for some and I am considering jobber parts for the not so critical pieces. I will use cat hardware as it is a very critical load point. My initial quote from cat was $12,000.00 and I am at half that right now between new cat surplus, some jobber parts and the crucial parts from the dealer.
 

Nige

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Jun 22, 2011
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G..G..G..Granville.........!! Fetch your cloth.
ITR undercarriage..? Same comment applies to Berco - no thanks. In fact no f'kin thanks...........
Fleetguard filters.? Stuff 'em where the sun don't shine. Parts store brands too. Just because Fleetguard are owned by Cummins doesn't imply quality.
Donaldson I would fit. They manufacture for OEMs including Cat but don't for a moment believe that their equivalent "will fit" element is the same internal design as the OEM Part Number of filter that it replaces, and that Donaldson also manufacture. OEM filters are manufactured to the OEM's design, not their own. If you doubt that then just cut one of each open and look at the internal differences, they're not hard to spot.

There are defiantly places in the equipment world that you can get away with jobber/aftermarket pats. I am preparing to go up to the yukon for another season and we have two out of eight haul trucks that need the balls replaced or shims removed between the diff carrier and truck frame. the parts from cat are ridiculous. I managed to find cat surplus parts for some and I am considering jobber parts for the not so critical pieces. I will use cat hardware as it is a very critical load point. My initial quote from cat was $12,000.00 and I am at half that right now between new cat surplus, some jobber parts and the crucial parts from the dealer.
I understand what you're saying, but when you factor the cost of someone's time to do all the due diligence on pricing/availability the savings become less. It might work for some people in a smaller operation, but IMHO the bigger the operation gets the less cost-effective that approach becomes.
 

DefenderHD

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Mar 25, 2018
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61
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Alberta Canada
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Heavy Duty Mechanic
I understand what you're saying, but when you factor the cost of someone's time to do all the due diligence on pricing/availability the savings become less. It might work for some people in a smaller operation, but IMHO the bigger the operation gets the less cost-effective that approach becomes.

yes I agree 100%. when I am working g for a big customer i just order all through cat. this is a decent size privately owned placer gold mine. we have 6 months of off season and nothing better to do then source parts for the up coming season. We will haul back anything that we can work on in the winter that makes sense to do out of the elements and the rest is all done on site. Anything we can justify on saving and bringing in ahead of time is money well saved.
 

Welder Dave

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I think it depends on the specific parts and the machine you're working on. My D3 size rollers were about $130. Cat were around $195 which is 50% more or $650 for 10 rollers. On this size machine I don't think the Cat rollers will last 50% longer. When you're the one paying the bill you have look at all your options. Do you park the machine because you can't afford OEM parts or do you fix it because you can afford decent aftermarket. There is some garbage aftermarket as well. OEM's don't always have the best parts either. Cat doesn't offer 3 ring pistons for 3200 series engines. IPD 3 ring pistons are superior without being overly expensive.
 

Kartal

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Mar 21, 2020
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Turkey
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Mechanical engineer
We've been observing lifetime of genuine and ITR track link assys on Komatsu D41E-6, D51EX-22, Caterpillar D7R working at road construction. We didn't see significant difference, in harsh conditions, lifetime about 4000-5000 working hours for ITR and genuine.
* * *
For bigger size machines, PC2000, PC3000, EX3600, EX5600 working in gold and coal mines, customers mostly prefer aftermarket hydraulic cylinders and undercarriage. Big cost savings there, because genuine prices are incredibly high, they sell with very high profit margins. In the beginning, customers hesitate to use aftermarket, but with one year warranty they accept to try, after 2 years they understand that, absolutely there's no difference in quality.
 

Nige

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G..G..G..Granville.........!! Fetch your cloth.
OEM's don't always have the best parts either. Cat doesn't offer 3 ring pistons for 3200 series engines. IPD 3 ring pistons are superior without being overly expensive.
Apart from maybe small owner operators, hobbyists, & farmers, etc, who else runs equipment with 3204 engines these days.? It's been out of production in new machinery for 20+ years, so why would the OEM devote any improvement/development budget to that engine model.? Aftermarket can handle it.
 

Truck Shop

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Dec 7, 2015
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WWW.
I'm fairly picky when it comes to engine/transmission related parts. The only parts I will install in a Eaton gear box are Eaton parts, No Big W or IPD. I have had a good reputation on my
rebuilt gear boxes and would like to keep it that way. Engine-Cat gets Cat, Cummins Gets Cummins and Detroit series 60 gets Detroit. Everybody can argue this point also Cat gaskets
and Cat O-Rings only on Cat Engines. When you reseal a Cat retarder you only want to do that one time.-------One Ping Only.
 

cuttin edge

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Nov 9, 2014
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NB Canada
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Finish grader operator
I'm fairly picky when it comes to engine/transmission related parts. The only parts I will install in a Eaton gear box are Eaton parts, No Big W or IPD. I have had a good reputation on my
rebuilt gear boxes and would like to keep it that way. Engine-Cat gets Cat, Cummins Gets Cummins and Detroit series 60 gets Detroit. Everybody can argue this point also Cat gaskets
and Cat O-Rings only on Cat Engines. When you reseal a Cat retarder you only want to do that one time.-------One Ping Only.
The Laurentian abyss it is then
 

Welder Dave

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Oct 11, 2014
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Canada
3204's and 3208's were in production for a lot of years and are known for blow-by among other problems. It took the aftermarket to come up with a solution that Cat could have easily done themselves. Cat apparently does more R&D than anyone else and developing a 3 ring piston doesn't seem like it would be a major engineering challenge. How much has Cat lost out on customers going to IPD pistons when they would have normally bought from Cat. In the case of 3200 engines the IPD pistons are better. Cat generally is the highest quality but that doesn't mean aftermarket can't be as good or better on specific items.
 

Kartal

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Turkey
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Main problem with the dealers is the price. Now in every sector, profits are lower than they were 30 years ago. But construction equipment manufacturers want to keep high profits. For example, this final drive of Cat 336D, part number 353-0585, dealer price was more than 28000 USD in year 2018. I purchased it 14475 USD. Genuine and new, of course not from the dealer. SAVE_20200329_025058.jpg
 
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