Quoting large parkade

Got offered to bid on a 60,000 sq/ft parkade, the question i'm trying to figure out is, can I even think of competing for price doing something of this size with my 210 compared to others? It will be done in two sections, but still a pretty large dig for a 210, i'm guessing others would be bringing in 300-400 size hoes. There is a fair amount of detailed excavation after, which I know I can bid on par or lower then others. Virtually all hauled away and haul back for backfill, I have a close dump site so I know I can compete on the trucking portion. A fair amount of small trips for backfill, etc. So the initial dig is the only thing where i'm at a disadvantage. But even 2 trips, 30,000 sq/ft about 12' cut is a lot of dirt for a 210.

Is it worth my time trying to quote it or is someone with like a 400 going to be that much cheaper? From the sounds of it, they are looking around as they don't like their current options of many of the bigger companies who do a lot of parkades now, so I can't say for sure if the lowest bid is going to be everything with them, I was referred to them.

I don't need the work, i'm busy with good paying work so I have no interest doing it for free, but if I can do good on it i'm more then willing.

What's the timeline? Can you rent a 300 or a 400 for this job and still keep your 210 busy doing your other jobs? I think you a right by saying it would be a load for your 210. Having a close dump site should be a big benefit for you. If it were me I would probably include enough in the bid to cover renting a bigger machine. Just my $.02

A job like that will tie you up from your regular work for a chunk of time can you afford to let go of any of your current customers not knowing if you would keep doing work for that gc

bam1968 said:

What's the timeline? Can you rent a 300 or a 400 for this job and still keep your 210 busy doing your other jobs? I think you a right by saying it would be a load for your 210. Having a close dump site should be a big benefit for you. If it were me I would probably include enough in the bid to cover renting a bigger machine. Just my $.02

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As far as I know it's nothing tight enough to where a couple of days would be a concern. I wouldn't be able to as I have no employees, it's just me still. Looking at the cost of rent, I doubt it would make it any more viaable then using my 210. A week rent, moving in and out would be like $10k.

AzIron said:

A job like that will tie you up from your regular work for a chunk of time can you afford to let go of any of your current customers not knowing if you would keep doing work for that gc

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That is true, although there is really only 1 customer that I wouldn't want to loose, a few of the others are the reason why i'm considering this, doing residential with these small builders who don't have a clue is getting frustrating. One customer i'm just finishing up 3 4-plexes so he won't have anything else this year. One is ok to work for, but i'm getting tired of waiting 4 months to get paid. I have work coming up for another decent size guy 4-5 builds who I want to keep happy as i've heard nothing but good.

This job is a decent size builder doing a one-off apartment. But part of it is to consider if I'd want to get into more of these. My brother is doing all the flat work for an apartment builder who is always building 3-4 of these sites with 2-4 large buildings at a time, he is considering try to start cribbing the foundations, and in turn I could get in doing the excavation if I was competitive in pricing. They've had a lot of problems with their current company, but there's not a lot of companies capable of doing it right now, so many have closed in the last few years. So part of why i'm considering this is to see how it goes, how the money is and if it's good try to get in with that company.

One part I like is i'd only be competing with decent size legit companies. Not the all the fly by nighters who have a 200 and cut each others throat for a job. On even playing ground as far as hoe size I can compete price wise easily and do very well, virtually all of them run all brand new equipment and have endless problems with employees screwing up.

What is causing the problems with with the other company ,they have to much work ,slow pay ,slow digging conditions,weather,permits,unrealistic time line, waiting on other contractors. Need to find out so you don’t have same problems.

Bls repair said:

What is causing the problems with with the other company ,they have to much work ,slow pay ,slow digging conditions,weather,permits,unrealistic time line, waiting on other contractors. Need to find out so you don’t have same problems.

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A lot of it is just incompetent workers. Damaging things, digging wrong elevations, etc. Some things out of their control, but most of it not. A lot also because it's a big company like 100+ employees so the guys on the site don't care and don't document things properly like if they show up and can't do something just leave and then end up with a problem later. The GC pays quick and on time, but can be sticky for extras, and don't hesitate to charge back when it's justified. Don't get me wrong the sites are an absolute mess, but doable if you manage it properly. But the work pays a lot better then residential.

Watch the insurance requirements once you get away from small guys to large it can get a little stupid

As far as chasing commercial work because everyone is res sucks I find commercial is no different here it's stupid no matter what Avenue you chase assume no one can give you an answer and if there is any question get it answered before the bid is in especially if they dont like change orders

AzIron said:

Watch the insurance requirements once you get away from small guys to large it can get a little stupid

As far as chasing commercial work because everyone is res sucks I find commercial is no different here it's stupid no matter what Avenue you chase assume no one can give you an answer and if there is any question get it answered before the bid is in especially if they dont like change orders

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I have got a quote of an extra $800/year to upgrade from 2 million to 5 million liability, so it's a bit of an expense but not too bad. Yea for sure, i've dealt with a few commercial projects so far. I just fixed another contractors mess last week at a smaller commercial site. It's better in some ways worse in others. One good part though is overall it pays a lot better. The problem I have with many residential is they just don't have a clue, i've had a few that basically expect me to build their home for them when i'm just the excavation contractor and it's incredibly frustrating.

I'll see how the year plays out. I'm just happy a ton of work is coming so at least I can pick and choose what I want to do.

I've learned to get very clear on my quotes on exactly what it includes and doesn't and get any clarification in writing so they know exactly what is and isn't included. Although it doesn't help, the one sort of commercial GC just threw out a PO on over a year old quote on a job that the specs drastically changed didn't bother to ask for updated pricing, and was surprised when my price went up over 50% with all the additions. I'm just happy it all happened prior to starting.

The problem with residential I find with that stuff is sometimes i've started and they come and say this or that changed and expects it to be free even if it costs me more. Or I do something and they tell me something changed after and expect it changed for free. The hardest part I find is getting any extras even when justified through these self builds or people who think they are gc's.

Are you digging and loading directly into trucks? It would take longer but if you've got enough trucks to keep loading steady might be worth considering. Bring in a 400 size machine and the trucks can't keep up you're not gaining anything.

Some residential can really suck. They tell you what they want done, then change their mind and want more work done for the same price. I had that happen when a customer decided he wanted another 5 pallets of sod laid. I said I'd lay the sod no extra charge as long as he paid for the sod. I thought I was being more than fair. Then when he paid me he held back $1000 in case there were problems! Of course he had a problem so I went to look. He had called the city lot grading inspector out twice to check the work I was doing prior to sodding. Some inspectors can be overly fussy but the inspector said it was perfect, in fact one of the finest yards he'd seen prior to sod. This customer walked around for a couple minutes and then said see this. I walked over and he was literally stepping side to side on 2 pieces of sod complaining that one was less than a 1/4" lower than the other. The sod wasn't grown together yet or even had it's first cutting. I said no sod farm will guarantee every piece is the exact thickness but once it's cut a couple times it will be level. I paid $25 and sent him a statement of claim. I don't miss customers like that and he wasn't the worst one.

That’s why every change needs a change order with price or a T&M ticket signed by contractors

Yes loading directly into trucks. Will also be hauling away all material and hauling back for backfill there's only about a 55'x500' area left on the site after the hole is dug so near the end it will be very tight. About 33,000 yards of material. 124 column pads to dig out. Breaking down the numbers, the actual hoe part of the main digging is only about 15% of the entire quote so if i'm even 25% high on that it's nothing. The trucking will make or break it, to be honest if I can I will try to get them to contract it directly to a trucking company. It would be a lot cheaper for them and i'd rather not have the risk. Digging the column pads 10'x10x12" my 210 will be perfect size, and for backfill I have right size also.

We'll see how my quote is, they don't have specs for servicing yet so didn't even look at them. My only real concern there is fire hydrants, i've never done one. Probably have to call in a favor there and have a guy I know help me, they don't seem that difficult but doesn't hurt.

Yea that's the problem with residential, so many expect to make little changes with no extra charges and some even get upset if you do change orders.

Are the spread footings really only 12 inches below sub grade or is it 12 inches thick and like 30 inches below sub grade to bottom of footing

AzIron said:

Are the spread footings really only 12 inches below sub grade or is it 12 inches thick and like 30 inches below sub grade to bottom of footing

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They are 12" below rest of footing, the slab is elevated about 2'. Not sure exactly how thick they are, guessing minimum 2'. Worked the quote off of arc's, they are still budget pricing and don't have final drawings yet so quite a bit of it was speculating.

Man I hate bidding for these reasons no one can walk up with a job that's ready you get to bid it twice before you can think about and then at least one more time before it starts and then you have to bid it again while your doing it for all the changes

AzIron said:

Man I hate bidding for these reasons no one can walk up with a job that's ready you get to bid it twice before you can think about and then at least one more time before it starts and then you have to bid it again while your doing it for all the changes

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Yea I agree, I don't get it. It's far enough they have plans, permits etc, and are going ahead for sure, but no finalized plans. Another customer is bad for getting a quote then coming back a year year and a half later and asking for a re-quote when they are finally ready. Or better yet a few times they just say oh were ready to go, here's a PO expecting the same price even if things change. I'm willing to bet when they are ready it will be like a week or two notice expecting to start. I had that with one general last year, was probably 6 weeks work, called 2 weeks before they wanted to start expecting me to be free for that much work with that little notice. Weren't happy when I told them I book in whoever has given me a PO/signed contract first.

Sounds like some of these jobs need to bid as cost plus or better to walk away. They have to give you sufficient notice. You can't just be waiting around for them to call you when they get their sh1t together... if they get their sh1t together.

I do a lot of work by the hour cause a lot of jobs are a day maybe 2 so my customers just want my service but I get at least 2 call a week at 6 in the evening from guys I have never heard of or haven't talked to in about 3 weeks asking me what time I can have a machine on there job in the morning it's like I am just standing here waiting on that phone call

On the flip side there is one guy that does that about twice a month and half the time it works out cause something canceled so I had a machine open and he pays within 2 weeks would probably pay faster if the post office was not so slow

AzIron said:

I do a lot of work by the hour cause a lot of jobs are a day maybe 2 so my customers just want my service but I get at least 2 call a week at 6 in the evening from guys I have never heard of or haven't talked to in about 3 weeks asking me what time I can have a machine on there job in the morning it's like I am just standing here waiting on that phone call

On the flip side there is one guy that does that about twice a month and half the time it works out cause something canceled so I had a machine open and he pays within 2 weeks would probably pay faster if the post office was not so slow

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I just can't believe that people expect that. I try to accommodate best as I can but if I can't I don't sweat it.

Well that's what's so great about today's economy everyone is going into business and for the same reason it sucks in this economy because the inept people are going into business and making it miserable for us serious players

In all seriousness the carpet baggers have moved in here and it's really starting to show wages for a cdl holding operator are up 5 to 8 bucks from a year ago and we are scratching for a 10 buck increase to the customer the thing that also really is showing is all the companies that dont have the money to cover work some guys want us to roll 90 days before they will even write a check and 2 of them I know for a fact have less than 3 weeks money in the bank