Lets talk Komatsu.

Mudslinger, when you do get to work with the 51 please let us know what you think of it, the negative and the positive.

Who's right

Having been involved with construction equipment all my life as a mechamic, then selling equipment I have formed a few opions about equipment
1, its dealer support
2, the finance package
3, equipment availablity
These three points were brought home to me a few years ago by a friend who was a equipment superintendent for a large construction company on the big dig project in mass. I was selling Deere equipment at the time, we both agreed on the quality of the big 3 brands of equipment(cat, deere,komatsu) and the dealers in the Boston market.
Then he brought up this point! Your job is on the line as a equipment super, you get a call you need six, 5yd loaders at (the pier) tommorow morning.
Who are you going to call?
Could I supply him that many loaders on a short notice, no could the Km dealer, no. But cat could and did. Its the total package on the equipment that makes or brakes it.
Just a opion.

last year i got the chance to run a new wa 500-6. any of you guys get the chance yet? what did ya think?

Lets talk Komatsu

Just found this site and Love it!!!!! Been running equipment all my life, and finally some people to talk to other than the people I work with!!!! So far I love it.. YES you can see everything!!!! Thought it would be hard to replace my 41 but I believe it has been replaced!!! If you guys here of any glitches, I want to know.

Mechanic Work

The only reason we can afford to own Komatsu is to do all of the mechanic work on them ourselves. Our Komatsu dealership has changed from SMA to Shanahan Equipment and their prices have gotten even worse. I have a few good sources for Komatsu parts if anyone ever needs them.

Keep on pushin'!!!:usa

Tony said:

"...Are your opinions based on field time on Komatsu machines or your affiliation with a Komatsu dealership?..."

Both, Steve. I was an operating engineer for 17 years before I came to manage a branch for a Komatsu dealer. I have experience on both sides of the joysticks, so to speak.

HO Penn is a great organization, and one by which many of the other dealers measure themselves. I dealt with them personally when I was involved in a family business some years back. The have great support and have always been fair.

I feel your pain with the JD dealership (were you dealing with them as "KC Canary", or the Nortrax Company). I had similar issues with KCC when trying to get parts for our 792, 490D and 510...this was back in the 80's and early 90's. Believe it or not, the company I now work for used to occupy that same building when they had the IH/Dresser account for the territory. (I was not employed by the company at that time). The Komatsu merger in 1991 changed all that, as you know.

I very much appreciate the work you put into this great forum. I hope that in re-reading my original post, you will see that I am not flaming Cat or their dealer network. I am only trying to set the record straight as far as people very blatantly saying that Komatsu has parts distribution and machine reliability and longevity issues, when this is simply not the case. If you bought a Komatsu in 1982 and had parts issues, I can say, "that was then, this is now". The company has come a long way, and I think that many people who spend time in the newer generation Komatsu stuff are pretty impressed.

If you're ever heading east on I84 towards Danbury, stop in. I'd be glad to have you kick some tires in the back yard, and put a Komatsu hat on your head (no charge, of course!)

Take care and thanks again,
Tony

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No kidding...are you Ehbar in Danbury?
Your parts guy had rubber shoes for my 128UU in 2 days.:drinkup

Special Tool,

Yes, you are correct. I am the branch manager.

I'm glad our parts guys were able to help you, and quickly, nonetheless!

Stop by any time and say hello.

Have a great day,
Tony

I own a Kumagutsa. Nice machine, good day at the office, does the same work as the equivalant Cat on a lot less fuel. Parts always seem to be "21 days from Japan". Unless it's an excvator I won't buy another which is a shame because I do like them.

I sometimes hook the Kumagutsa up to a old LeTurnover drawn scoop...

Re Funny you should mention that

My Komatsu experience is the one I own, a couple of 65's, a 155 series 1 I didn't like, a couple of 155 dash 2's I really liked, a 355, a 375 (4 speed and a lock up converter - I loved it), a few excavators in the 15 - 30 ton classes spread from dash 3's to a dash 8, and a WS16 scraper.

As an excavator I think they're building arguably the best on the market, Hitachi might be tougher, Kobelco might outperform them, Sumitomo are probably the best bang for your buck, but averaging them out Komatsu b the king. However I am aware of one dash 8 fitted with toggle switches because the touchpad kept buggering up, and another that was down 14 days waiting for parts on a job with a deadline and at 8 months old. I won't even mention the Cat/ Mitsubishi product because they last forever - haven't got enough power to hurt themselves.

The scraper was a scraper. I hate 'em all. But it was reliably pounding my kidneys and made money doing it.

Dozers are my baby. I haven't got much experience on any of the newer stuff - I started off on my own 11 years ago and so have been restricted to play time only. The exception be a 6R I bought two years ago. I like the Komatsu product. I think that averaging out pros and cons they are BUILDING a superior product. For fuel efficiency against a similar Cat they win hands down, mechaniclly they're as good or better (and I'm the fitter here so I can have that opinion) , the electrics can be a bitch but no- one is building a dozer yet that has an electrical / computer system designed to handle years of dust and vibration. Cat is in my opinion riding on it's reputation from the good old days.
BUT
I am looking to upgrade my Komatsu. I've had this one since 97. It's been good, made me money, what it's saved me in fuel over the competition adds up. It won't be a Komatsu. I really have the shits with "21 days from Japan" on parts. For me to purchase a low hours late model machine to send it out on jobs where a high level of availibility will make me or break me I can't risk a Kummagutsa. Even a new one with warranty.
I find it dissapointing that if I am prepared to pay the freight Cat can send me any part for any machine landed at the nearest international airport in 48 hours or less. What 21 days from Japan tells me is "we don't have any on hand, and it takes a few days to machine one up". I can't run a business like that.
And as stated the shame of it is that if they got off their arses and backed up the machines at a level with Cat I'd buy one.

And because I know some people are going to be upset by this, I want to state that opinions are like arseholes - everyone's got one and most of them stink. Don't take the odor of mine personally.

for my two cents
a dealer has the power to make or break a brand,the kommie dealer here is second to none, great parts service and excellent fittters with state of the art equipment.Now having said that Cat are not far behind but are twice as expensive, for myself,well if its got sticks I use it ,from an Ackerman to a XCG,only once did I refuse to operate a piece of plant and that was a Hitachi that had been vandalised.I personally own a JCB JS130, which is based on a Summitomo sh120,but if I had the urge to change it would be a Volvo , a while back we put a volvo cat and kommmie (of similar size) loading dumpers (Volvo & Cat) the dumpers rotated to each excavator and kept a record of the fill loaded ,every hour the excavators drivers changed ,swapping around between each excavator.At the end of the shift we were surprised at the results, the most productive excavator was the Volvo loading a dumper more per hour per operator and they also have an excellent back up service :IMO:soapbox
stock

Reply to old thread but I am talking about Komatsu and I can't start a new thread yet.

I am looking for a used Komatsu excavator. I already have a PC55 and need a bigger machine. Dealer relationship is good and they are very capable as well as reasonable.

I have never purchased a used machine before so this is new territory. The machine I have located is a PC150-6, Year 2000, 5800 hours on it. Original paint and cosmetically good. Looks like its been fairly well taken care of.

Second owner has had about 2 years and says it was from a pipe laying company.

He indicated that one boom cylinder is wet or slobbering. Pics confirm that to be true. Its not a gusher as far as I can tell. Work is now slow for this owner and he needs to get rid of a payment so I suspect that is the reason it was not repaired immediately....just not enough funds.

Obviously that means a repair which I can accept and understand. The bigger concern is contamination of the hydraulic fluid and damage to components. A new pump on one of these is spendy.

Would this leaking cylinder give you much more experienced owner/operators concern over the remaining life of the machine and the pump/hydraulic system? Is that a sufficient reason to pass? I do intend to have the dealer provide an inspection on the machine once I look at it myself. Should I just go ahead if purchasing and replace the gallons and gallons of hydraulic fluid?

Thanks for all the replies.

Have the dealer take a hydraulic fluid sample. A fluid sample can tell you whats going on in the system.

Usually one leaking boom cylinder isn't much of an indication of a system wide problem with the machine.

I usually only become concerned when I see both boom cylinders and maybe the stick cylinder slobbering. Sometimes it can indicate overheating hydraulics and possibly engine coolant as the same air is pulled through both radiators to cool both systems. An oil sample of the engine and hydraulics might give you clues to condition but many times add more confusion that anything. A twelve year old machine would normally acquire more than a thousand hours a year in normal construction work which would make me leery of the published hour meter reading. If it does have those hours on it, the hydraulic oil should have been changed at least twice. If not, a sample would only show dirty oil that would be taken care of by an oil and filter change. It used to be the key to oil samples on Komatsu hydraulic systems was brass or bronze in the oil. A lot usually meant a piston and barrel or slipper foot issue in the pump or motors.

I generally look for hydraulic hoses bleeding through the outer covers for an indication of system age and clues to operating temperatures. I'll check boom up cycle times and see if the machine will walk straight and turns easily. I'd check for fault codes on the monitor and shift through all the modes. The last item is a check of the condition of the undercarriage.

You can have a dealer check the machine out but that will probably set you back a little over a grand for the field wrench and his travel plus expenses. Repacking a boom cylinder is no problem if you have the bench that can take the nut off the rod. If you don't have that you will have to take it to a shop. In my neck of the woods it will run you around a grand with your time to pull the cylinder and the shop to do the packing.

Good Luck!

Hey fellas just to add my 2 penneth.
Our family company has run over 50 pieces of Komatsu equipment for the last 12 years from d39 to D85 had there adts and excavators right up to PC 450 size.
My opinion is there excavators are good strong reliable not smooth on hydraulics but fast and powerful.
Dozers are good pushers better than Cat IMO but in no way any where near as good.
We try run our equipment until it has 12-15k hrs but with komatsu dozers this is a big ask we find they have had enough at 8-9k.
Cats on the other hand can go to 12-15 k without any major component failure in the main and when it's time for a rebuild they are so good to work on its no big deal.
Komatsu are a nightmare to work on all major components are basically sat in a big bath tub.
Ground clearance is another issue with komatsu flat track design Cat high drives are great here in the uk where its always raining and boggy ground no dragging of the underbelly and transmition over heat problems.
This is without the resale value issues.
Thanks Steve

Komatsu from Japan is differente than made in Germany....

Deas Plant said:

"Kummagutsa"????????????????

Hi, Tony.
You are a comparative newcomer to this forum and so would not be likely to have seen my previous explanation of my use of this pseudonym. It is a slang name that I picked up way back when the company's products weren't quite the quality they are today. I have stated my views on the products pretty clearly in the past and again in this thread. If people can't or won't get past my use of a slang name and take my statements as being my honest opinions about those products, so be it. I have no plans for change to accomodate people who wish to read while wearing 'blinders'.

You can call Caterpillar whatever you like. It is highly unlikely that you will change MY opinion of their products, their service and parts back-up or their marketing machine.

Quote from your first post in this thread:

"The truth of it is this:
CAT is a marketing company
KOMATSU is an engineering company"

Unquote.

For mine, both of the above statements are true - - - as far as they go. If in saying this, you are inferring that Caterpillar is not an engineering company and 'Kummagutsa' is not a marketing company, then I'd suggest that you are not stating the whole story. Caterpillar has consistently over-engineered its products in relation to their power for almost their entire existence. That has been a point that many competitors have used against them over the years. Those competitors have built machines with higher power-to-weight ratios and claimed higher efficiency. Most of them have not been able to demonstrate superior reliability and equivalent service life. 'Kummagutsa' has probably come closer than most to achieving this.

Caterpillar has also been fairly industrious in its testing programs for a very long time now - not saying that 'Kummagutsa' isn't. Not only do Cat have their own proving grounds but they also send new products and models out to selected users for on-the-job testing in ways that Cat testers and engineers would have difficulty duplicating. I suspect that your favourite manufacturer does likewise.

Quote:

"If "Joe Schmo" says that "Acme" is a bad product, people don't give it much thought. If your Grand Daddy says "Acme" is a bad product, you tend to believe him even if he's wrong. See what I'm saying?"

Unquote.

I beg to differ, at least in my own case. Regardless of who said or posted what, I have this rather odd habit of making up my own mind about most things. I suspect that there might be a few other people on this forum who take a similar approach to life and what they see and hear.

Hoping this answers some of your concerns.

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I prefer to respond to Deas Plant's posts by skipping over them!

Don Shilling said:

I prefer to respond to Deas Plant's posts by skipping over them!

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Well Deas has been gone for a while so just keep skipping by his old posts.