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John Deere 570A side shift cylinder NOOP

Tried_it

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May 19, 2019
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20190331_175421.jpg Greetings, I'm dealing with a 1982 JD 570A grader, love the machine - however... Was spreading my 4th load of RAP as road base when suddenly the 'shift blade to left' stopped working. (T-handle) It stopped when I had the blade almost all the way to the right. It still shifts right, but I can't get it to back left to center position.

Hydraulics sound like it might be trying to move but not budging. I thoroughly cleared/cleaned slide channels from material that had packed in, and tried to bury toe and slightly roll forward while shifting left but no go?

Anyone seen this? I still need to confirm hydraulic fluid if full, but I did check it last week.
Any help would be appreciated if this might be semi common issue.

My old Gallon didn't have this feature so was never a issue.
 
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Delmer

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I'm not familiar with graders, these are general thoughts.

Can you see the valve bank that this control operates? Does this spool move the same direction down as the other ones in that spool? Oil can build up in the cap that covers the bottom of the spool and spring and block the spool. If it works for a bit when you start it and then stops again, that's the typical symptom.

If it were low on fluid the other functions would act up also.

Is your blade shift one two way cylinder, or two opposed cylinders? If it's one cylinder, then the piston could have come off inside the cylinder, or blown the piston seals.

If it still goes to the right, it's probably not jammed. You could test by holding the blade in the air and pulling it back with a chain binder/come along/ ratchet strap, with the engine off and the valve in operating position.

One thing to understand on this closed center hydraulic system, there is no difference when you deadhead a function, and when the valve doesn't operate (closed center). The pump is off when the fluid is not flowing. You'll put a load on the engine only when fluid is flowing. It's probably not as easy to see this difference on a grader as it is on a backhoe or excavator, but it will help you figure out what is going on, or at least not confuse you with noises that don't mean anything.
 

Tried_it

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May 19, 2019
Messages
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Location
Colorado
Yes, removed the covers over the valve bank and all linkage to valve is perfect. This uses a butterfly like toggle to pull up on the valve for left shift and push down for right. The cylinder is a single for both directions.
We were thinking the same and I put on a come-along and cranked it down pulling the blade left with extreme pressure, didn't budge, then started and shifted left while under pressure, same result.
During all this I noticed the hydraulic hose at the cylinder flexes and draws down the pump when trying to shift left, similar to shifting right at the end of travel.. This seems it might indicate valve is working, and maybe time to pull the cylinder, unfortunately.
Machine has only 1500 hrs so seems odd but possible.
Thanks for responding.
 

Delmer

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1... pull up on the valve for left shift and push down for right.

2 The cylinder is a single for both directions.

3 We were thinking the same and I put on a come-along and cranked it down pulling the blade left with extreme pressure, didn't budge, then started and shifted left while under pressure, same result.

4 During all this I noticed the hydraulic hose at the cylinder flexes and draws down the pump when trying to shift left, similar to shifting right at the end of travel.. This seems it might indicate valve is working, and maybe time to pull the cylinder, unfortunately.
Machine has only 1500 hrs so seems odd but possible.
Thanks for responding.

1 That eliminates the oil filling the spool cover cap, because that would affect the right, not left. You still need to confirm that the spools travel the same distance as the spools next to it, you'll notice by looking at it closely if it's not, you don't need a micrometer.

2 Which direction corresponds to extend and which to retract on the cylinder?

3 Did you have the valve and a couple others open/operating while trying to move the cylinder? This might not be a useful test, as the come along has no power compared to a little backpressure on the hydraulics. Instead, If you can, disconnect the rod end of the cylinder from the blade and stick it somewhere it won't hit anything, then see what the cylinder does. And with the cylinder loose, you can see if the blade is jammed. I might even try to swap the hoses before taking the cylinder off, if you can't pin this down better another way.

4 I don't think you're understanding what's going on with the hydraulics, when you deadhead the valve, the pump shuts off the same as with the valve off (CLOSED CENTER). This is harder to pick up on with a grader that doesn't stall the functions as routinely as an excavator. To really load the pump down, you have to have a big cylinder moving under the max load it will take without slowing down significantly. When you briefly open the valve against the stalled cylinder, it's just making a quick off-on-off switch, it shouldn't load anything for more than a fraction of a second.

Mg understands this better than I do, hopefully he'll correct me if I'm off base here.
 

cuttin edge

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Nov 9, 2014
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NB Canada
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Finish grader operator
Crack the lines at the cylinder and try to move it with another machine or come along. I had one jam on a dresser. No idea what it was but with the lines cracked, it wouldn't budge. A little bump from a D3 moved it and it never caught again
 
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brianbulldozer

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Dec 25, 2010
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Assuming we are taking about the long cylinder behind the blade and not the circle shift cylinder, how about switching hoses with the blade tip circuit on one side or the other of the rotary manifold (only picked this circuit because it seems like an easy swap) and see if the problem follows the valve or the cylinder.
 

rsherril

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May 2, 2009
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You mighy try loosing the bolts that hold the mouldboard in the slides. There are shims that can be removed as the guides and rails wear, Possible that a shim has folded up and jammed up in the slide.
Most of the slide wear is in the center six feet and the ends are ends have less. Shims can be removed to tighten up the play, however the ends will need to be lightly ground to compensate.
I have a peice of conveyer belting running the top length of the blade that keeps the slides fairly clean and offers some protection for hoses, the cylinder and rod from spill over material.
 
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Tried_it

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May 19, 2019
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Colorado
I think Delmer was right, the cylinder wasn't under pressure while pulling the valve/spool up to shift left, even though there was audio indication.
I use this machine to maintain a 5 mile long subdivision road, my neighbor is a Cat mechanic. He was sure a orface in the valve body was clogged and said he would help me pull it apart after we spread the material he was pulling from a wash all day. Was working the machine very hard and after about 4 hours the left shift cylinder started working on it's own.

What I did:
Scrape and clean the slide rail from RAP and packed in sand.
Remove console covers and verify linkage to the spool ok, and spool traveled at same rate as others along the bank.
Used come-along to farce the blade left, with engine running and without.
Insured full engine/hydraulic fluid when warm.
Was about to break loose hose at cylinder but had to put it to work first.

I can only suspect running the machine hard heated the fluid and possibly cleared a clogged valve body. Removing the spool cover may have indicated debris which I'll do if problem returns.
Thanks for all the useful suggestions.
 
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rsherril

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I'm getting real up close and familiar with this end of the machine. When I was taking the side shift cylinder off for repairs I noticed about 3/16 inch (4mm)gap between the mouldboard slide and bottom retainer. Their are 4 retainers for the slide., top/bottom and left side/ right side. After I removed some shims I had a sticking at full extention issue 7 too. Put the blade end into a solid dirt bank and put pressure on that end with lean wheel and/or articulated
function while retracting blade and it went right back. Put a shim or two back in and lightly touched up rails on each end with sanding wheel and 4 1/2 in grinder. Sticking problem went away.

Better way would be to build slide rails back up to acceptable tolerances and shim accordingly. Wear and tear has over the years has taken its toll more on the middle part. I think this usually done with the mouldboard off and on steel saw horses. Don't know the specifics, but was searching when I came across this post. My TM (technical manual) does not address this. Beginning to think we need a 570 sub forum under Old Iron.

I'm considering doing this as in the grading world a tight blade and circle as well as a front end make a lot of difference in results. Will keep searching.
 

ovrszd

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First time I shimmed a blade was on a 670B. I shimmed it in the center position. First time I ran it to the far right it wouldn't come back. Had to unbolt the blade top carriers to get enough slack to move it.

Then,,,,,,, I read the manual. Says to shim with the blade at one end or the other, not in the middle. :)
 
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ovrszd

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Forgot to mention, that's the cleanest, straightest 570A I've ever saw!!!!
 

rsherril

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Haven't had any luck finding any info on restoring the slide portion. I understand that the newer graders have plastic inserts that wear before the metal on metal contact for both circle and slide. I'll contact a welder and see what they say about a rebuild.
 
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