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More dealer support complaints .....its getting to epidemic propertions

Vetech63

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2016
Messages
6,362
Location
Oklahoma
Again, more complaints about our local JD dealer and their product support (service). Its been really bad here for several years but its getting to be almost constant now. For example...……..

I had a new customer call me about 2 weeks ago with a drive issue on a 650J dozer. Intermittent codes coming up for transmission TCU power loss. The customer said he had taken this dozer in on 3 occasions in the last year and had spent a total of $4500.00 and still no resolve. After getting some code definitions from King JD (lol) ….the first thing I did was remove the cover over the fuse panel to find.....650J Fuse Box.jpg
It doesn't look to me like this was ever even looked at as this machine was just at the Deere dealer 2 months ago.
Started removing the fuses and the corrosion was just pathetic. Cleaned the fuse box up, replaced all the fuses and WAHHHHLAAAA! Success!
 

Vetech63

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2016
Messages
6,362
Location
Oklahoma
The customer , when he showed up and I showed him this, went on a 15 minute rant about why that wasn't checked by Deere. I had no answers for him.

Another new customer calls me this last Saturday. After attempting to get the dealer out to look at his 333 skid loader for 2 months, had finally give up. I again, endured another rant about Deere here and their unwillingness to assist smaller customers with service issues. I haven't seen this machine yet, but am expecting something similar.

My question is...……...Is this just a super bad service dept? Or...…..is this type of stuff going on nationwide? I'm hearing customers here saying they will NOT do business with Deere here again until something changes, which doesn't look like will happen anytime soon.
 

Hobbytime

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2016
Messages
709
Location
usa
I would say its a systemic problem through every industry...they cant get good employees and are stuck with getting bodies to fill empty spots...just like bringing your truck or car to the dealer for service..its hit or miss who works on it and if they even have the training or knowledge to even trouble shoot the problem....it seems if they cant hook up a computer to tell them what to fix they are at a lose till a mechanic with a brain can look at it...
 

partsandservice

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
846
Location
Georgia
I agree BV . The Deere dealer around here has one guy that knows his trade, customer realize this and request him on their job. They are gonna burn him out. Between being requested and cleaning up behind others( likely making the same money he is) it is inevitable.
 

John C.

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
12,865
Location
Northwest
Occupation
Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
Just had this conversation at a conference I attended last week.

Baby boomers moving on, skills gap happening from management decisions on replacements and training, no or little mentoring of new people, plenty of better higher paying jobs in more comfortable atmospheres, completely different perspectives on the lives that young talent wants to live and finally, totally different moral and ethical compass. There are some good people in the pipe line but it will be some years before they hit the peak years of their careers.

The equipment industry has to face up to the fact that talent will require higher pay, more training and plenty of time to mature into the jobs. In the mean time I might suggest you raise your rates as you are going to be in demand for some years to come.
 

crane operator

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,275
Location
sw missouri
I'm going to say also, that its not all on the mechanics. While Vetechs63 picture is really sad, I think the manufacturers are also partly to blame on this. The company engineers want to redesign everything every year (otherwise they wouldn't need so many engineers would they?)

Epa is forcing ever increasing emissions standards, so we keep having engine and transmission changes.

Who hasn't heard of people having to "reflash" their machine to the latest update, before they can even begin to fix what's wrong, that kind of stuff isn't on the mechanic.

Oh- and there's the ever popular- I don't have the right cord/ plug/ software/ computer to read your machine, its the old/ outdated/ obsolete style.....

The models and engines change so often, its got to be hard to get good at fixing any of them. My Grove tms300 was built as the same basic machine, from 1973, until the early 90's. That's 20 years of production, the tms 250's had a similar production span. You could get cummins big cam, or detroit 2 stroke power- engine designs that started before the crane model and lasted after their production. With a eaton/ roadranger type trans, and rockwell or eaton rears.

Today its not unusual to see 2 year production runs, then that model / computer control system, completely abandoned for the "new". Same with engines and transmissions. We see all kinds of different versions of auto shift type transmissions, and none of them have long production runs, compared to the simple eaton/ roadranger transmissions.

I admire the guys that can dive into any type of electronic systems and are comfortable diagnosing them, I'm not that great with them. And the young guys getting going, no one wants to pay for "learning" time. Sink or swim, throw them into the deep end and bill for all their time.
 

John C.

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Jun 11, 2007
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12,865
Location
Northwest
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Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
I agree with most of what you are saying, but the big issue I see these days has to do with actually doing some wrench work. One guy comes out for a hard start problem, plugs in a computer and says nothing is wrong. Turns out the engine has oil being blown out the breather. The guy didn't know anything about checking crankcase pressure and just left the job without a clue.
 

dirty4fun

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
1,188
Location
N. IL
The Case dealer in town has a couple really good mechanics, one is quite young but very good. The others have very little knowledge and seem to have no common sense. I have seen a couple things that they said were not fixable to the customer. I looked at it and ten minutes had it fixed. I bought a backhoe from a different dealer, when I demoed at their store the air conditioning didn't work. Told them I would take it when the air was working. They delivered it no air, the hauled it back returned a few days latter still no air. They sent a mechanic up and a fellow who who does air conditioning. Pulled the seat three of the four ducts were plugged with dirt and gravel. The fan was replaced and it worked then. It seems that some just want to do as little as possible switching parts instead of finding the cause or the problem.
 

Ronsii

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Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
3,464
Location
Western Washington
Occupation
s/e Heavy equipment operator
The Case dealer in town has a couple really good mechanics, one is quite young but very good. The others have very little knowledge and seem to have no common sense. I have seen a couple things that they said were not fixable to the customer. I looked at it and ten minutes had it fixed. I bought a backhoe from a different dealer, when I demoed at their store the air conditioning didn't work. Told them I would take it when the air was working. They delivered it no air, the hauled it back returned a few days latter still no air. They sent a mechanic up and a fellow who who does air conditioning. Pulled the seat three of the four ducts were plugged with dirt and gravel. The fan was replaced and it worked then. It seems that some just want to do as little as possible switching parts instead of finding the cause or the problem.
Here again the manufacturers are driving towards the 'parts changer' tech... make everything modular more or less that a simple part change will fix it.... most of the time :( I started running into parts changers many years ago... they didn't know how something worked but by god they knew they could fix it if they changed enough parts ;)
 

Legdoc

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2007
Messages
464
Location
south texas
It is not just problems with the service side of dealers. I gave up on the local orange tractor dealer due to failure to resolve a total cluster fu.. that could have easily burned my CTL from technician incompetence. I purchased a new compact orange tractor in December from another dealer. There was a delay in delivery waiting for additional remotes. Picked the machine up last Friday and the salesperson was away at factory training. The machine was paid for in December with exception to the remotes. The only salesperson there showed little interest in delivery but sure collected the remaining funds for the accessories. There was no sales paperwork manuals or documents available. I loaded the machine myself and never got a thank you. Closer examination revealed the bucket level indicator missing, paint scratches that looked like a kindergartener touched up, a gouge in the vinyl seat and deep rusted gouges in the ROPS. I doubt the machine left the factory like that and I suspect took place at the dealer. I spoke with my sales rep today who was not happy with my experience and was willing to help but I surmised was not surprised. While this was no 100k purchase it was as expensive as a small car. Unfortunately I think this is just the way it is today.
 

Legdoc

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2007
Messages
464
Location
south texas
Vetech63. That is some half-assed design on that fuse block by John Deere. WTF The idiots at Deere could have at least mounted that block in a Tupperware container with a snap on plastic lid to protect it from the elements. Boat mechanics do it all the time and I assure they are no multi billion dollar operation like Deere.
 

Welder Dave

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Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
12,260
Location
Canada
Have a friend who is the head diesel technician at a Ford Dealership. A few years ago for some reason the owner seemed to look the other way when then the shop foreman was charging customers for work that was supposed to be done but never was. Another friend who worked there as a mechanic brought up the subject and subsequently left because they wanted to keep quiet about it. Things like coolant or trans. oil flushes. They'd top the fluid up but charge for a complete flush and fill. The apprentices and/or shop helpers just did as they were told by the foreman. Thankfully that foreman is gone and things have improved drastically.

The local Kubota dealer here is pretty useless too.
 

92U 3406

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Joined
Jan 3, 2017
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3,100
Location
Western Canuckistan
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Wrench Bender
It is not just problems with the service side of dealers. I gave up on the local orange tractor dealer due to failure to resolve a total cluster fu.. that could have easily burned my CTL from technician incompetence. I purchased a new compact orange tractor in December from another dealer. There was a delay in delivery waiting for additional remotes. Picked the machine up last Friday and the salesperson was away at factory training. The machine was paid for in December with exception to the remotes. The only salesperson there showed little interest in delivery but sure collected the remaining funds for the accessories. There was no sales paperwork manuals or documents available. I loaded the machine myself and never got a thank you. Closer examination revealed the bucket level indicator missing, paint scratches that looked like a kindergartener touched up, a gouge in the vinyl seat and deep rusted gouges in the ROPS. I doubt the machine left the factory like that and I suspect took place at the dealer. I spoke with my sales rep today who was not happy with my experience and was willing to help but I surmised was not surprised. While this was no 100k purchase it was as expensive as a small car. Unfortunately I think this is just the way it is today.

My father was shopping around for a skid steer and out of all the dealers he went to, only 1 would give him the time of day. I guess unless you're buying $1 mill/year worth of equipment you can GFY is the new attitude these days.
 

cuttin edge

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Nov 9, 2014
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2,692
Location
NB Canada
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Finish grader operator
As an owner of a machine, tractor trailer, car, even a lawnmower.... You are at the mercy of corrupt dealerships and mechanics if you don't know anything about what you have. It pays to educate yourself so you don't get charged for blinker fluid. No one fixes anything any more. A lot of mechanics are just parts replaces. There were even guys in our shop. Won't start... New battery, new starter.. I guess it was just corrosion... Oh well they got lots of money. I will say this, we have had great service from Cat, Strongo, Sancton, and Deere. Our L70G has been a nightmare with the regen system. Last storm she had to be hauled back to the shop. The fix was going to cost about $15000 just for parts. The Volvo tec put us in touch with a guy who would do a delete on it. Said he knows his stuff and stands by his work. Came to our shop yesterday and did the deed. Looking into getting a few trucks done
 

Birken Vogt

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Nov 30, 2003
Messages
5,305
Location
Grass Valley, Ca
As for salesmen not wanting to talk to sub $1MM customers, maybe there is a reason for that. Perhaps most of the potential customers they talk to waste so much time, or try to beat them down so hard, it is not worth it for them is how they feel. Otherwise you would think any good salesman would be all over any potential customer where they can make money, the only explanation is, for some reason the money is not there.
 

92U 3406

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Jan 3, 2017
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Western Canuckistan
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As for salesmen not wanting to talk to sub $1MM customers, maybe there is a reason for that. Perhaps most of the potential customers they talk to waste so much time, or try to beat them down so hard, it is not worth it for them is how they feel. Otherwise you would think any good salesman would be all over any potential customer where they can make money, the only explanation is, for some reason the money is not there.

Most dealers he went to didn't even bother to send a quote or SFA to him after looking at machines on the lot. Never heard a word back whatsoever. Even when he sent an email to them to follow up it was ignored most times. Like how long does it take to type out a quick quote and attach a pdf with machine specs and click send? 15 mimutes? They all lost out on a sale because of it. Laziness IMO.
 

Nige

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Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Messages
28,984
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G..G..G..Granville.........!! Fetch your cloth.
My father was shopping around for a skid steer and out of all the dealers he went to, only 1 would give him the time of day. I guess unless you're buying $1 mill/year worth of equipment you can GFY is the new attitude these days.
Even if you are buying millions of $ from them the GFY attitude is still there. Don't ask how I know this..........
The local Cat dealer was planning on quoting and requesting a PO to send a Tech Communicator to a customer job site only a few days ago. I almost had a conniption.
 
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