Not-for-hire hauling of CTL's

I have "Non-commercial" plates on our 1999 F350. I will probably switch these to farm plates based on the recommendation of a neighbor (northern MN).

Considering machines up to ~11-12,000 pounds (I am considering a Kubota SVL90-2), can any Minnesota neighbors advise me on a gooseneck trailer setup that would not require CDL? The limit is 26,000lb altogether - is that correct? I'd be looking at used trailers (7k axles I am guessing).

Thanks!

Oh no, here we go again. There are as many opinions on this as there are members.

In general terms from my farm hauling experience , (actual farmer not 2 chickens and an apple tree kind of farmer), a farm plated vehicle and trailer are exempt from cdl requirements but not commercial vehicle requirements. Around here they look at the tag on the truck and the trailer when weighing them. As long as the axle weights are under tag you are ok. Never had an inspector care about the manufacturers recommended combined weight as long as each vehicle is under tag and your registered limit. Around here we can't just raise the registered limit to suit our needs. I'm told some states can. No cdl up to and including semis with farm tags. Do need medical card and maybe a log. We have commercial insurance. Been stopped many times and never an issue. Except one inspector who didn't know how electric brakes worked.

Now all this only applies if you are an actual farmer hauling for yourself and not for hire. Do not get caught with farm tags doing anything for hire or moving stuff that isn’t your own.

yep sorry - I know this is a contentious issue. I had a guy tell me just to haul on the weekend and as long as I am not driving a dually I should be okay But I hope to prevent pain and expense by choosing a machine and trailer that I can tow with an F350 and be fine without a special license. For the 3-4 times a year I'd be doing it to either bring a machine to service or to one other location to do a project or two, that would be ideal!

Yep - this will only be my own equipment, and never would be for hire. We just have a rustic lake property 70mi away I want to be able to work on a few times a year, and want to be able to get a machine in for service ~40mi away when needed.

Ct Farmer said:

In general terms from my farm hauling experience , (actual farmer not 2 chickens and an apple tree kind of farmer), a farm plated vehicle and trailer are exempt from cdl requirements but not commercial vehicle requirements. Around here they look at the tag on the truck and the trailer when weighing them. As long as the axle weights are under tag you are ok. Never had an inspector care about the manufacturers recommended combined weight as long as each vehicle is under tag and your registered limit.

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Okay, so to dumb this down (for me)... And BTW I will be completely honest, we are homesteaders, I'm absolutely a "farmer in name only" with a food forest and an orchard. It just happens that I have an unrelated music/technology business I operate on the property, that and homeschooling is how we do life. But we're on a remote property where we do our best to be self-sufficient so I think it's completely appropriate to have farm plates.

So are you telling me that the 26,000lb limit wouldn't necessarily apply and I could theoretically haul a 11-12,000lb machine (like a big Bobcat/CAT CTL or Kubota SVL90) on a deck-over goose neck trailer with a single-rear-wheel F350 and be OK? The stipulation is that it is NOT for hire and all equipment is ours?

You really need to look up the regs in MN. In CT you can have a truck gvw up to 25,999 and pull a trailer up to 10,000 gvw. If you go over the 10,000 gvw on the trailer you need a CDL, if you go over the 25,999 and trailer or no trailer, you need a CDL. So technically here you wouldn't even be able to have the trailer with the correct gvw to haul the SVL90 LEGALLY without a CDL. I have no idea what the regs are for farm plates here though.

according to this page I may be okay in MN hauling a large CTL provided the truck has farm tags, since I would always be within a 150mi radius and never for hire:

Do I need a commercial driver's license (CDL)?
A driver is required to obtain a CDL to operate any of the following vehicles:

• A single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight (GVW) of more than 26,000 pounds;
• A combination of vehicles with a combined GVW of more than 26,000 pounds; with a trailer of more than 10,000 pounds GVW;
• A vehicle designed to transport 16 or more people including the driver;
• Any size vehicle that requires hazardous materials placards; or,
• Any size vehicle outwardly equipped and identified as a school bus.

A driver is not required to obtain a CDL to operate any of the following vehicles:

• A farm truck when it is:
• • Operated by the farmer or immediate family member, or an employee of the farmer;
  • Used to transport agricultural products, farm machinery, or farm supplies, including hazardous materials to or from a farm;
  • Not used in a contract or common carrier operation; and
  • Used within 150 miles of the farm.
• An authorized emergency vehicle of any size
• A recreational vehicle operated for personal use

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Am I understanding this correctly?

With farm plates in CT cdl is not needed if you are on farm business. You cannot use farm vehicles for personal use .You must have a legally registered farm business. Even going to the big orange box to get a kitchen sink is not allowed. Now if you happen to buy a bunch of fence posts and a sink that is usually ok.

As for the trailer, what Tags posted above is correct without farm plates. The 10k trailer limit is a violation that trips many people up.

I have no idea how things are in MN, but I know lots of farmers in many states who drive a lot of farm trucks with no cdl. How remote you are also helps. In some places everyone has farm plates, nobody really pays any attention unless you do something stupid.

Best thing is to check with your local DMV enforcement.

You are not required to have commercial plates for farm use. This means hauling ag products. If you are hauling your skid steer to your other property 80 miles away to work on said property, that is not ag. I was ticketed for hauling 3 snowmobiles on my ag licensed trailer a number of years ago. We were traveling to look at a timber sale which is classified as ag but we got the ticket anyway. The officer said to tell it to the judge. For a $75.00 fine its hard to justify losing $500.00 to try to win a case over $75.00 even if you feel you are right. I put regular plates on my 12,000 lb. trailer and they turned out to be cheaper by $3.00. You are not going to haul much of a skid steer on a gooseneck and stay under 26,000 gross. You will still be subject to inspections, etc, with your farm plates. I recommend you get you CDL, put regular plates on your vehicle and trailer, and be hassle free. You can take your CDL test with your gooseneck. It will license you up to that size rig. No air brake indorsement required. Put not for hire stickers on your truck and trailer and you will normally be left alone. Your farm plates are only good for 150 miles radius unless they changed it recently. Unless you have farm plates on both the truck and trailer you are technically by law still not exempt from anything. Do you take your truck very far from home? As you are not for hire you can get a medical exemption on your CDL. I have one. Just go to the DMV office and have them punch it into the computer. If it doesn't go thru try again the next day. The MN DMV computer system is a mess. That's what the gals at Moose Lake told me. My medical card exemption went thru on the first try. You can still haul your own stuff with the medical exemption as long as you are not hauling it to do paid work. Another thing folks are getting wrote up on is being under insured. Make sure your insurance policy covers the total weight of truck, trailer, and load you will carry. They have been ticketing overweight log trucks that are insured for the legal weight for under insurance. Cost more than the overweight fine in many cases. You will be way cheaper and no worries to just do it right.

thanks @old-iron-habit ! The other place we would haul to is on Hanging Horn Lake, and our mailing address is there Moose Lake (although we have no mailbox ).

How much of a pain (in terms of cost and time) will it be for me to get a CDL? Our homestead is in Two Harbors so I guess I would be dealing with Lake County.

Alternately, should I focus only on machines that will keep me under the 26,000 limit? what would that be, ~8,000lb?

koselig said:

thanks @old-iron-habit ! The other place we would haul to is on Hanging Horn Lake, and our mailing address is there Moose Lake (although we have no mailbox ).

How much of a pain (in terms of cost and time) will it be for me to get a CDL? Our homestead is in Two Harbors so I guess I would be dealing with Lake County.

Alternately, should I focus only on machines that will keep me under the 26,000 limit? what would that be, ~8,000lb?

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Pick up the free CDL book at any DMV office. Read it and take the written test at the main DMV office in West Duluth. It will be multiple choice and common sense. Two trick questions out of 100. All answers are right on them two so no one is good enough to get 100%. Then you can practice driving as long as you are empty, in daylight, and under the 26,000. Over 26,000 you would need a CDL driver with you. The test is just driving around a few blocks and backing up making a easy drivers side 90 degree left hand turn over at Wade Stadium parking lot. You can pull up as many times as you need. None is best. Then back up straight enough for another 40 yards to still be in the parking lot at the back edge. The biggest piece is to be sure you have your pre trip inspection nailed down. When the inspector walks out with you mention you will start with your pre-trip inspection. Easy on a goose neck and all in the manual. You can skip the air brake part.

Hanging Horn is one lake that fascinates me for fishing, I can not get it figured out. What a crazy structure in that lake. Its a amazing lake. I live exactly one mile west of M.L.

Take the Cdl test and do like old Iron states. Minnesota dot just add 16 more enforcement officers just last week, so the chance of running a muck of one will be increased from here forward.

grandpa said:

Take the Cdl test and do like old Iron states. Minnesota dot just add 16 more enforcement officers just last week, so the chance of running a muck of one will be increased from here forward.

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Seen the Cloquet scale open this past week. Frst time in months. I suppose with more enforcement officers it will be open quite often again. It was open in the evening also.

Up here you have to make a minimum $10,000 off the property to get the Alberta farm fuel benefit and taxed at the farm property rate. There are some exemptions though. Sod farms used to be able to run purple diesel in their trucks but that was changed quite a few years ago. Their argument was they need to get their crop to market the same as say a grain farmer.

grandpa said:

Take the Cdl test and do like old Iron states. Minnesota dot just add 16 more enforcement officers just last week, so the chance of running a muck of one will be increased from here forward.

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Not to mention they will be "highly motivated". It will take months for them to be on their own, if they were just hired. There is a lot of discretion available to DOT enforcement, new hires tend to be like the baby rattlesnake, every bite gets a lot poison.

I am going to look into getting farm plates for my truck. I have re-read the MN DOT documentation numerous times, and according to my reading, I should be exempt from the CTL requirement as long as I am hauling *MY EQUIPMENT*, TO- OR FROM- MY "FARM" PROPERTY. The key is whether or not the DOT will consider me worthy of farm plates. I know a neighbor has them, and has a remote property similar to ours.

old-iron-habit said:

Pick up the free CDL book at any DMV office. Read it and take the written test at the main DMV office in West Duluth. It will be multiple choice and common sense. Two trick questions out of 100. All answers are right on them two so no one is good enough to get 100%. Then you can practice driving as long as you are empty, in daylight, and under the 26,000. Over 26,000 you would need a CDL driver with you. The test is just driving around a few blocks and backing up making a easy drivers side 90 degree left hand turn over at Wade Stadium parking lot. You can pull up as many times as you need. None is best. Then back up straight enough for another 40 yards to still be in the parking lot at the back edge. The biggest piece is to be sure you have your pre trip inspection nailed down. When the inspector walks out with you mention you will start with your pre-trip inspection. Easy on a goose neck and all in the manual. You can skip the air brake part.

Hanging Horn is one lake that fascinates me for fishing, I can not get it figured out. What a crazy structure in that lake. Its a amazing lake. I live exactly one mile west of M.L.

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Im not very up to date on the farmer tags but I am a trailer/vehicle manufacture and thing people forget to do is register there truck as a combination tag. 10,000 and up trailer is Class A requirement

One guy construction said:

Im not very up to date on the farmer tags but I am a trailer/vehicle manufacture and thing people forget to do is register there truck as a combination tag. 10,000 and up trailer is Class A requirement

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Both statements may be true in your state, but are not applicable in all states. We do not register in combination. We also do not require class a cdl for over 10k trailer unless the combination is over 26k.

It appears you can have a newer SRW F350 (11K GVW) and 14K GVW trailer (GCWR 25K) and no CDL required, same here in AL.

I am 99% sure that a non commercial class A is required when towing a trailer over 10,000 lbs. any state driver license should state < or > than 10,000 lb towing on them. I was just at a dinner with a maryland state police officer that runs in our local scale house. I was picking his brain about this a little bit, He stated as long as no name is on truck trailer or equipment they dont check. But if they think you are doing any business for hire they will be checking your credentials. The 10,000 trailer law is a fed law not a state, most states just dont enforce it most of time. Just my 2 cents. Dont want some one getting dinged for not knowing. Any one can call there state DOT and ask questions. Better to be informed over of the phone than along the road. Phone call is much cheaper. Again the class A Iam talking about is not a CDL. Big difference between the two.