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John deere loader transmission issues?

soapstoneguy

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Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
119
Location
Oregon
Hey guys, have a 744 wheel loader and for some reason it would shift completely fine in 1st and 2nd but going from 2nd to 3rd it feels like it shifts but just doesn't pick up speed like it should, almost like driving a manual up a hill and not downshifting feeling where you know it won't make it. Note, the transmission oil was way over full when I checked it. Now going down a slight slope, not steep at all just slight, it would shift in to 3rd and go like it should. I drained the oil, pulled the suction screen, put new oil in etc. However, when I pulled the suction screen there was some metal maybe 7 pieces, some small and some up to 1in square pieces (largest) that were at the bottom. After putting new oil in it seems to shift just fine like usual and 3rd and 4th feel like they are there and it climbs that little slope in 3rd just fine. If I slow down at all on the slope and try to get going in 3rd I'm going too slow and it feels like it doesn't want to get up to speed so I downshift to 2nd to get some speed then in to 3rd and it seems to do just fine.
Any ideas on if there's a serious trans issue here? It doesn't bang or hit hard when upshifting or downshifting and feels like everything shifts smoothly as it should.
 

Bigbert

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
326
Location
Germany
Occupation
Consulting Engineer
Is it a ZF 4 WG 260 transmission?
No fault codes in dash?
Possibly polluted screens in control valve.
Behaviour worse when cold?
There are pressure measuring ports in control valve. M10x1 thread.
 

mg2361

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2016
Messages
5,054
Location
Pennsylvania
Occupation
Equipment Mechanic
A serial number will be required. Pictures of the debris also. Was the transmission filter cut open and inspected? Having metal junks 1" square...something serious going on there!
 

soapstoneguy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
119
Location
Oregon
No fault codes, nothing going off or lighting up. I'm not sure about the transmission but I can check in the book.
 

soapstoneguy

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Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
119
Location
Oregon
I'll get some pics of the debris. The filter was not cut open and inspected. The transmission screen was pulled from the bottom of the tranny and that's where I picked out the metal. I'll upload pics later today.
Thanks guys!
 

Bigbert

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Jan 2, 2016
Messages
326
Location
Germany
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Consulting Engineer
mg2361, fully agree, looks like a cage of a ball bearing.
As far as I remember, on 4WG 260, there was a ball bearing on PTO drive, behind transmission pump (deeper in transmission) and on output shaft to articulation pivot. Seen from the size I'd rather assume its the output bearing.
 

soapstoneguy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
119
Location
Oregon
Thanks for the info. Serial: ck744eb000617
I drove it around for a bit yesterday, let it warm up for about 5min and it felt slow (about 40 degrees outside) after about 15min of driving around slowly and getting oil to the point it felt warm it feels fine in 3rd and 4th even starting out on a slope in 3rd and shifting through all gears, no slips, you can feel it shift gears and grab as well. Don't really have a long straight away to really get it going full speed in 4th but it grabs it and goes. I'm wondering if the combo of too much oil as well would have something to do with it? Even starting in 3rd on a hill it doesn't feel like it slips or anything and it actually makes it up the hill just fine. Are there any tests I can do to see what it could be inside? Would I notice anything right now?
 

Bigbert

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Jan 2, 2016
Messages
326
Location
Germany
Occupation
Consulting Engineer
Way too much oil would definitely reduce the performance especially at higher gears and speeds and also performance being worse when cold.
Oil level at engine idle, transmission in neutral, operating oil temp. should be around 50 to 70 mm below center output shaft.
Too long slippage of clutches would drop tranny to neutral with "B" codes o display.

Hard to say whether the balls of the broken bearing would come out. I'd say yes. However a broken bearing should create noise and vibrations around output shaft. Excessive play there?
Are you aware about history of transmission? Any repair done on it in the past? Without proper cleaning of sump and screen area?
 

soapstoneguy

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Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
119
Location
Oregon
Ok. I don't have any way to see codes but when it was doing it's thing when you shift from 2-3 it felt like it shifted, you could feel it shift, but just didn't quite grab the gear which i was thinking was due to high oil and the machine being cold from high 30s that morning (ice on the steps). It wouldn't kick it out of gear at all and no klunk or dropping sound, just felt like if you were driving a manual transmission up a hill in 5th gear and your rpm fall and if you don't down shift you won't make it. It would still roll but just super slow.
Now that oil was drained and correct amount put in it doesn't do that and 3 and 4 feel fine. I don't hear any noises or especially vibrations around output shaft. I watch it as the machine is rolling as well as driving at various speeds (someone else driving) and there's no play in the shafts that I can see.
I did find some notes in the tech manual that does seem to indicate they did some work on the master clutch but not 100% sure if they actually did or just did some tests on it. I was thinking the they may have done work but never cleaned the screen area, or they did work on the output shaft and didn't touch the screen etc. As long as I've had it I have never heard any noises or anything indicating there was an issue and we have a smaller lot with lots of cars coming in and out so never had any reason to go in to 3 or 4 as it was just too fast.
 

mg2361

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Just my opinion. This is all a mute point. With that kind of debris coming out of the trans that puppy has to come apart.
 

fast_st

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Dec 1, 2010
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1,468
Location
Mass
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IT systems admin
Just my opinion. This is all a mute point. With that kind of debris coming out of the trans that puppy has to come apart.
and I'd think sooner rather than later, that looks like something that could go very bad in a hurry.
 

Nige

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Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Messages
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Location
G..G..G..Granville.........!! Fetch your cloth.
I can’t imagine that if someone was in there before how they could possibly have missed pieces of that size while doing the clean out. Conclusion - it’s recent.
Suggestion - snatch it sooner rather than later. Don’t roll the dice.
 

soapstoneguy

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Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
119
Location
Oregon
They have their own shop who does work on their equipment and not sure what kind of work those guys do. If they would have brought it over to the dealer I could see them cleaning everything out.
 

soapstoneguy

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Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
119
Location
Oregon
I'm thinking they didn't tear in to it completely, or repaired it a while ago and it happened after that. I've never heard anything out of the ordinary while I've owned it.
 
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