????On training

I was wondering if I could get some input on how long you dozer guys think it should take to see some progress in a new dozer operator. We a trying to train three different guys on the dozer, one has made slight progress and the other 2 guys........well i'm uploading those pics right now into photobucket so you all can see.

Reason I ask is that i'm the only other dozer operator and the 3 we're training...well I call 'em my make work project...problem is I have other work to do and I wind up fixing their mess and then doing my work....and my god they leave a mess. My boss said it's up to me and if I say scrap it he isn't gonna waste his time trying to train another new guy and the guys on our crew.... well they get frustrated too trying to run it.

So what do you think? Should we give these guys more time (they have been training for just over a month) my boss said it's really up to me....and well i'm not to sure :Banghead:beatsme

k here's one pic of the mess my trainees made

i'm off to work!

after a month an operator should be getting there but it takes time. It took me a while but I was learning on a late 70's D6 dozer that had seen better days.

May I ask what size machine they are trying to learn on? do they have any other experience operating other machinery?

I've seen people who have equipment in their blood and could just about operate anything with a little seat time, then I've seen some that just make you wonder why they are wasting so much of their time

After a month you should be able to see an operator in at least one of them. If not then...well, to be straight up its either one of two things. 1) they are not capable and probably never will be 2) the training is not adequate.

Have you asked them direct how they think they are going?. This may give you some insight.

Are you distracting them by any chance??)Ron G

How long to train a dozer operator.

Hi, Catchick.
Disregard RonG's comment. He's just jealous that he's not one of those trainees. LOL.

For mine, I would be suggesting that they find some other form of employment if they weren't showing signs of 'getting it' after one day of intensive instruction - one-on-one. If you are simply showing them something and then leaving them to do it for a half-day or a day, that may take a little longer but I would have put them out of their misery way before a month.

I feel I can say this with some authority because I have in the past trained 'newbies' to be passably competent bulk pushing operators in as little as 2 hours and have had them at least able to clean up their windrows in under a day. And not just one or two of them but probably nearer 2 dozen of them to date and that on all sorts from sloppy old stick-shift cable angle blades through to brand new hydraulic whizz-bangs.

Call it intuition or whatever you like but I have found that I can usually pick the ones who will make it in the first hour. There have been two notable exceptions to this, both female, both absolute beginners on ANY form of plant, or indeed anything bigger than their own small cars, but both as keen as mustard. It took both of them at least half the first day to stop being frightened of the sheer size of a Cat D8H. Once they got their heads around that, the rest was a bit easier for them.

One of the give-aways is whether or not they appear to have any sort of an 'eye' for levels, distances and the size of their machine. Another give-away is how quick they learn to co-ordinate their handling of the machine. Probably the biggest give-away though, is their attitude, whether or not they appear to WANT to learn. if they don't WANT to learn - in capital letters - then their attitude is going to be a handicap in other ways too.

Hope this helps. Just my 0.02.

There is something to be said for driving with two hands,Deas.Ron G

catchick said:

k here's one pic of the mess my trainees made

i'm off to work!

Click to expand...

What is it your doing, moving topsoil, grade, slope, what...are these 3 guys on your crew now or new hires (I ask that because there is a ton of experienced operators out there)? Have you ever trained anyone to run a dozer before? Do these guys have any operating experience in any other equipment? Just a few questions I have… with this said it takes seat time (I know you don’t have that kind of time tho…) , how long did it take you to learn to run a dozer properly….good luck with this….

It would take me a very long time to grasp the concept. The teacher would have to spend extra time with me cause I just cant seem to get it right.

God luck with this venture. Remember, some will never be able to operate plant as long as they have a breath in thier body Do they show any intrest, do they seek guidance do they ask questions or are they just there for the scenery. :cool2

Attitued and ambition are everything...I'd much rather spend twice as much time on someone that was truely interested than someone who's just putting in their time.

Try to remember what you didn't know when you started out....what seems obvious to you now wasn't then.

AtlasRob said:

It would take me a very long time to grasp the concept. The teacher would have to spend extra time with me cause I just cant seem to get it right.

God luck with this venture. Remember, some will never be able to operate plant as long as they have a breath in thier body Do they show any intrest, do they seek guidance do they ask questions or are they just there for the scenery. :cool2

Click to expand...

Training new operators is not as difficult as some here make it out to be. I will offer the following hints:
1...Make sure the trainees understand what the finished job should look like.

2...Let them watch an experienced operator do simple things like cleaning up windrows etc and explain the necessity of drainage and avoidance of water traps.

3...If using pegs for level reference, explain how to read the surveyors information. (This can vary between individual survey teams).

4...Explain the importance of leaving fixed pegs in place until that section of the job is almost completed. The pegs and surrounding dirt are easily removed later.

5...Sat nav and laser level controls are excellent but your job will always look untidy unless operators can remove windrows and leave a tidy floor.

I'm just an ugly old fart but have trained many learners in my time.................C ya...........Ray

Good post Ray, A new operator has to learn to understand and visualize what needs to be done before he or she can do it. The mental aspect is as important as physically running the machine otherwise they are just aimlessly pushing dirt. Same thing for scraper hands, I've had guys that know how to run the scraper but have no concept of what the job should look like.

1) Understand the job and how to go about it
2) Develop an eye so you can do it
3) Develop the machine skills so you can do whats in your mind

I've spent about 12 hours in a dozer over the last few days....which basically, would be about 3 times the operating time I've had in a dozer to date.

I've got lots of time in excavators and backhoes, and feel I can do pretty much whatever is required, and do a decent job of it.

Dozers...well...the first couple hours it felt like I was all thumbs. I knew what I wanted at least (some may not even recognize that), but just couldn't seem to get the feel right. After some time, it started to click, and now I feel reasonably competent. Am I flat and within an inch or two of grade? not likely.....but it's reasonably close. I know that with some more seat time, I will get to be decent, but I know I have lots to learn, and there are lots of operators out there that can put me to shame.

Personally, I find operators need to be able to do two things....picture what they want the finished product to look like, and grasp the controls enough to get it to produce that result. The artists in this business can do both...the lever pullers can do a good job of the second, but not necessarily the first.

I'll try to answer some questions...

Yep i've trained b4 but generally we have a let them on their own policy, with guidance of course but it seems to make it worse when they feel they are being watched.

All three have run Rock truck and tandem sand truck so that could be our problem. Not enough experience on dirt moving equipment though i'd be scared to see what they can do on hoe or payloader....:falldownlaugh

We have them moving clay and sand on inpit dump so it's not like they are trying to level hard pack.

They are training on a brand new 850 JD which I hear from some is that the JD dozers are the hardest to get your bearings in to make stuff level etc....

One has trouble taking direction from a girl though I do have experience running dozer back to when I was running with my dad when I was 17. And it don't really matter cause he's a big nerd:exactly

I caught on real quick to dozer but I enjoy the hell out of it. In a matter of days I could make stuff do what I wanted it to but I don't think that any of them love the dozer like I do (and man I love my dozer )

Trying to explain something to them is like:deadhorse uh yeah

We a basically just looking for a replacement for me when I actually take a day off I work 11 and 3 so it's only basically 6 days a month we need another dozer operator and in case I get sick which is rare.

Boss and I were talking today (as we are into our 2nd week of almost straight rain.... almost 4 inches total so far.... so we aren't doing much at work) and he figures pick the one hardly decent guy but the guy that is doing better than the rest and keep him training a little and he will at least make it enough in three days that I won't have a huge mess to clean up when I get back. So we'll try all three another week and then give the other two the boot back to their trucks.

And I try not to distract them but my charm and beauty can be overpowering sometimes:naughty or mostly when I talk they just stare at my boobs....it's one or the other i'm not sure:beatsme:angel


I thank ya'll for your input (man we need a big kiss smillie)(uh yeah this is mainly a dude forum but I demand a big kiss smillie!)

Somebody has their signature that says " If their no good in the seat, Put'em on their feet" ....

here you go

Driving with TWO hands.

Hi, RonG.
With my stricly limited experience of operating machines in earthmoving, I have just about firmed up on one conclusion. That is, it doesn't matter how many hands you use to operate the machine, you STILL have to use your MIND as well. LOL.

Catchick, I had the (dubious) privilege of running the one of first JD850 hydrostatic dozers that came into Australia. I was on it for a whole 1/2 hour at a demonstration field day and I had no trouble doing anything with it. Bulk pushing, ripping, levelling, side-cutting batters, climbing and descending steep slopes, it did the lot happily. It was the first hydrostatic machine that I had operated and I liked it. I did think it was a little light on the front but the smaller Cat dozers and others all had that same disease at that time too. (1981.)

Catchick, if it were me i would go with thte guy that is showing intreset in something other than your boobs(dont take that the wrong way, some guys just think they know it all and cant take orders from a woman)! It sounds like he will be your best canidate because he can do the basic job, since you only need him 6-8 days a month. Good luck with this, don't pull your hair out to much....:cool2

What are these guys doing with the dozer, if they are just pushing off I can't see any reason to leave a mess if they are willing to take an extra couple minutes and straighten up, if they are trying to fine grade or something with limited seat time thats a bit more understandable. Whats the pay, I'd love to run that 850!!