Help me find a machine to dig ditches in mud

john146 · Dec 28, 2019

I've got a lot of ditches/trenches/canals to dig on my property for drainage; maybe a few retention ponds as well. I was initially going to use my tractor and buy a backhoe attachment, but I'm actually going to be selling it and buying a skid steer or track loader instead.

Where I live we have this thick goopy swampy muck, and that's what I need to dig into. The muck is about 1 ft deep but it gets everywhere; so ability to navigate within it is critical. This means I'd need either a tracked machine or a wheeled machine with steel OTT (+$1500 seems like). The steel tracks might even perform better in my conditions (I don't have any kind of paved surface for it to work on).

What I'm unsure about is how much power I need, and how well I'd be able to dig with a backhoe attachment, and which kind of backhoe attachment would work best - I see there are two types, one which is a "proper" backhoe attachment with a seat and outriggers, and one which is basically an extended bucket, and seems like it could also work for me (also about $1500-2500).

Beyond digging trenches, I'd also want it to carry stuff around the property, power an auger attachment (fairly small holes, 6-8" or so), pull things occasionally and basically do all of the other things I would have used a tractor for.

I'm eyeing a used 773 for $8k with 3k hrs on it (and looks very clean), a used 773 with 2.3k hours for $10k, and a used 773 for $12k with 1.6k hours on it. There's also a T190 with a backhoe attachment (The seat kind) with 3.3k hours for $18.5.

My overall budget would be $25k (for everything including any attachment, tracks, etc) if I'm able to finance. If it's hard cash then it'd be slightly less (maybe $18k).

Beyond doing a bit of research, I'm entirely new to skid steers. I test-drove (for the first time) a used T190 and a used Cat 246 yesterday. I liked the cat machine much better, way smoother ride, etc. - but they wouldn't even give me a price on it, telling me to call their sales rep; so I'd rather see what's available on FB marketplace.

Would the 773 models work for my needs if I just get the tracks for them? should I be looking at something else entirely?

AllDodge · Dec 28, 2019

Have a foot of muck, to me I would look at tracks and wider the better

Ronsii · Dec 28, 2019

With a foot of muck I wouldn't even think of using a skidsteer for trenching and stuff like that... you need a regular excavator and possibly a track loader to move spoils around.

DMiller · Dec 28, 2019

Keeping the machine Outside of the ditch will be most important
Unless prefer swimming do all your work off the bank
Excavator, backhoe(TLB) or a mini-ex bigger the better
A CTL will do good where the excavator lacks. Nothing is a Do-all machine

Bls repair · Dec 28, 2019

On a different subject ,wet swampy ground sounds like wetlands to me . Don’t know about where you are but around here the DEP frowns ($$$$$) on disturbing wetlands.

john146 · Dec 28, 2019

I worry I made it sound worse than it actually is. The entire area isn't submerged in 1 ft of muck, but if I lose traction somewhere and wheels (or tracks?) spin, it'll dig itself into a pretty deep hole. There are some spots where I'll need to dig into a foot of muck.

This isn't wetlands, it's pastureland that's in a flood plane. I imagine that once upon a time this was wetlands, but that was before my time.

I'm looking into TLBs (50 HP+), but they seem to be quite expensive, big, and have limited utility around the farm (which has a lot of obstacles = seedlings we're planting). Smaller TLBs (~30HP) don't seem suited to the tasks I'm trying to perform. A skid steer or track loader seems to be a machine with a low upfront costs that will cover the widest range of tasks I'd have for it.

Bumpsteer · Dec 28, 2019

Doesn't matter if its a tlb or skid/track loader with a backhoe, the 180 degree swing will kill you. They ain't worth a shrit for ditching. If you set 90 degrees to the ditch, you'll spend more time moving than digging.

A mini-ex will serve you best for ditching, the 360 degree swing lets you get the spoils out of the way and drive parallel to the ditch, moving every couple buckets is quick with no stabilizers.

Imo, you need 2 machines. Mini-ex & tracked skid steer.

Ed

Evening Digger · Dec 28, 2019

I have one of the skidsteer backhoe attachments you describe, specifically a Bobcat 903. I use it on a T770. It will indeed work in soft areas and get the job done.

However it's the worst piece of digging equipment I've ever run that had a hydraulic cylinder on it (it's still better than a shovel). It's impossible to be smooth with it and it's not very powerful. In muck it will dig through it but when it encounters clay below that it won't do much more that scratch the top of the clay.

I've never used a trencher for a skid steer but if a trencher might accomplish what you need that's probably a better option than the backhoe. In fact of you don't need deep ditches you may be better off to just dig them with the skidsteer bucket.

Steel OTT tracks will be better for traction in your environment in my experience. They will grab onto things like logs and sticks while wet rubber tracks want to slip off of them. The OTT tracks will require more maintenance than a tracked machine.

Welder Dave · Dec 28, 2019

A mini-ex and some small swamp pads to drive on. If it's slop driving anything in it will make a huge mess. A TLB would be the worst option and you probably wouldn't be able to move at all. A mini-ex with a thumb could easily pick up some small swamp mats to place in front for driving on. Here's a video I found in a quick search.

john146 · Dec 28, 2019

Evening Digger said:
I have one of the skidsteer backhoe attachments you describe, specifically a Bobcat 903. I use it on a T770. It will indeed work in soft areas and get the job done.

However it's the worst piece of digging equipment I've ever run that had a hydraulic cylinder on it (it's still better than a shovel). It's impossible to be smooth with it and it's not very powerful. In muck it will dig through it but when it encounters clay below that it won't do much more that scratch the top of the clay.

I've never used a trencher for a skid steer but if a trencher might accomplish what you need that's probably a better option than the backhoe. In fact of you don't need deep ditches you may be better off to just dig them with the skidsteer bucket.

Steel OTT tracks will be better for traction in your environment in my experience. They will grab onto things like logs and sticks while wet rubber tracks want to slip off of them. The OTT tracks will require more maintenance than a tracked machine.

Yes, I've thought about all these things. Here where I live, the water table resides at 4-5 feet beneath the surface, so I don't think I'd need it too deep. And I guess I'd need to make swales rather than deep narrow trenches (though I'm hoping the latter will work), so I could just do it with the bucket.

I know everyone is insistent on a mini-ex, but I can only find the most compact of compact excavators starting at 13k (and I don't know if those will do the job), and that doesn't leave me a whole lot of room in the budget for anything else. It seems it's possible but not efficient spoil-wise, to do this with a skid steer, though.

Theweldor · Dec 28, 2019

Rent one for a week and try it. You might be surprised at what they will do. Pretty cheap date before investing in something without experience.

ianjoub · Dec 28, 2019

Palmettos make great swamp pads.

DMiller · Dec 29, 2019

If cannot afford the machine that will do the job as needed then rent only as needed when can afford. Going cheapest route trying to make a machine do what you wish but not to capability will only spend good money after bad.

This discussion been made here many times. Never different except the names of the players.

colson04 · Dec 29, 2019

Buy the skid steer, as it seems thats what you are set on. Then rent an excavator for a week, month, or few days to do your ditch work. That makes the most sense to me. I've rented equipment in the past for a week here, or weekend there for short, one time projects and I never viewed it as wasted money. I had a short need for a specialized piece and didn't need the risk associated with owning another piece of equipment. Plus, you get to run a fairly new piece of equipment compared to what you could buy.

I do have experience with steel OTT on a Bobcat and they do work. I have short, steep, clay covered hills and the steel tracks get me through where other equipment spins out or slides around. I won't own another wheeled skid steer without having a set of steel OTT for it. Loegering makes a really nice, heavy set, but they don't come cheap.

john146 · Dec 29, 2019

What should I expect to spend on a used skid steer that'll do the trick. Would a 773, S-175, or similar 40-50 HP machine do it? They seem to be pretty plentiful around here.

I spoke to a contractor friend today (who's familiar with the soil and terrain here), He said that I could try with a > 50 HP TLB for starters; that I could get a mini ex for $15k that'd get the job done, but said that a good used skid would run about 20k.

By the way, my dirt piles will probably be localized, I'm not gonna be hauling dirt more than 1-200 ft. I might even spread the spoils between the raised beds of the ditches so as to elevate them.

Delmer · Dec 29, 2019

I don't know FL, my inclination would be to wait for a drought year and do the work with your tractor and a three point blade. The skid steer would work also, if it's dry enough for a tractor. If there's some that need to be ditched to get it to dry out enough to work, use a shovel. I've never used skid steer tracks, but it seems like it would be extremely easy to get hung up in much and then the tracks do nothing for you. I have used 2wd backhoes in conditions you'd never use a tracked skid steer, dozer, excavator in, they're hard to put in a place you can't walk out of with both buckets and the outriggers. Almost impossible to get stuck if you're willing to carry timber for those to lift off.

Get what we call a quack digger, pretty easy to find under $100 to work the ground up to help it dry. You seem concerned about the budget, stick with a tractor. If you're concerned about reliability, possible expensive breakdowns that are more than you can fix yourself, stick with a tractor.

Welder Dave · Dec 29, 2019

If you really have foot deep muck you're not going to be able to do much except make a bigger mess with a TLB or even a skid steer. I agree with DMiller, if you can't afford the right machine rent one.

DIYDAVE · Dec 29, 2019

Renting one is a good thing to do, afore buyin one! Me, I ended up buyin an ASV RC30, 14 or so years ago. Handy as a shirt pocket, and the only times its ever been stuck was once when I sheared a drive motor key, and once when a hyd motor blew a seal.

CASE1234 · Dec 30, 2019

john146 said:
I've got a lot of ditches/trenches/canals to dig on my property for drainage; maybe a few retention ponds as well. I was initially going to use my tractor and buy a backhoe attachment, but I'm actually going to be selling it and buying a skid steer or track loader instead.

Where I live we have this thick goopy swampy muck, and that's what I need to dig into. The muck is about 1 ft deep but it gets everywhere; so ability to navigate within it is critical. This means I'd need either a tracked machine or a wheeled machine with steel OTT (+$1500 seems like). The steel tracks might even perform better in my conditions (I don't have any kind of paved surface for it to work on).

What I'm unsure about is how much power I need, and how well I'd be able to dig with a backhoe attachment, and which kind of backhoe attachment would work best - I see there are two types, one which is a "proper" backhoe attachment with a seat and outriggers, and one which is basically an extended bucket, and seems like it could also work for me (also about $1500-2500).

Beyond digging trenches, I'd also want it to carry stuff around the property, power an auger attachment (fairly small holes, 6-8" or so), pull things occasionally and basically do all of the other things I would have used a tractor for.

I'm eyeing a used 773 for $8k with 3k hrs on it (and looks very clean), a used 773 with 2.3k hours for $10k, and a used 773 for $12k with 1.6k hours on it. There's also a T190 with a backhoe attachment (The seat kind) with 3.3k hours for $18.5.

My overall budget would be $25k (for everything including any attachment, tracks, etc) if I'm able to finance. If it's hard cash then it'd be slightly less (maybe $18k).

Beyond doing a bit of research, I'm entirely new to skid steers. I test-drove (for the first time) a used T190 and a used Cat 246 yesterday. I liked the cat machine much better, way smoother ride, etc. - but they wouldn't even give me a price on it, telling me to call their sales rep; so I'd rather see what's available on FB marketplace.

Would the 773 models work for my needs if I just get the tracks for them? should I be looking at something else entirely?

personally I think a backhoe would suit you better but having said that rent you a 70-90 horsepower skid loader for a day and see how you like it. might even rent a track loader. I cleaned out a pond with 4/6 foot of muck in it with my h4. you cant just go into it. you have to start getting down to clay first then dig it out. backhoe you can start anywhere. you will find out that muck will play havoc on your skidloader tires or tracks. traction will go away quick. course your backhoe will pull it out. as far as the 773 yes it will do the job but you will have to go at it very carefully. wont be quick but will do the job. good luck

john146 · Jan 2, 2020

Sorry to revive this old thread. How big of an excavator do I need? Would a 3 ton do it?

Help me find a machine to dig ditches in mud

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