Cat d3g duo cone seal

Smallscontracting · Dec 22, 2019

Hello all, first post. I noticed that there is oil leaking down the inside of my sprocket, from what I’ve read I’m thinking that the duo cone seal might be bad. How do I go about fixing this. Never tore into a dozer final before. Thank you for any help.
Jonathan

Nige · Dec 22, 2019

Post a machine Serial Number and a photo or two of the leak. That would be a good start.
On a conventional tractor like yours replacing the Duo-Cone (if that's what is actually leaking) is going to be a fair bit of work.

Smallscontracting · Dec 22, 2019

I will get a picture when I get to the shop tomorrow late morning. Thank you

Smallscontracting · Dec 23, 2019

Well I walked into the shop this morning to find final gear oil all over the floor. I moved the dozer in from a job I just finished Cutting timber on yesterday, that’s when I saw a small bit of oil on the inside of track pad. I’m guessing I have the pull the final off ? Obviously I need to block the machine up and split the track at the z link. Then what? Thank you for any help and or encouragement. First year in business is always the hardest right?? Haha

kshansen · Dec 23, 2019

Well here's what I'm seeing for the remove and disassembly of the final drive of a S/N CFC00446, D3G dozer:

Nige · Dec 23, 2019

Here's the track separation & connection just in case it's any use.

nicky 68a · Dec 23, 2019

TC Tractors is the preferred man in the UK to be pulling finals apart.
I'm sure he can give you some good advice if he sees this thread.
It's not a job to do yourself.
It's an idea to pull both apart.

Cmark · Dec 23, 2019

These aren't like a conventional oval track tractor with a dead shaft and tapered splines.

What you are looking at is a single stage planetary driven by a pinion and bull gear. You can dismantle it as far as the duo cone without removing the final drive and with no special tools required. However, the pinion bearings start to wear out on high hours machines so you may want to consider pulling the entire final drive while you're at it. It's up to you.

kshansen · Dec 23, 2019

nicky 68a said:
TC Tractors is the preferred man in the UK to be pulling finals apart.
I'm sure he can give you some good advice if he sees this thread.
It's not a job to do yourself.
It's an idea to pull both apart.

Nicky, Think TC Tractors would make a road call to Wyalusing? Maybe swing by and pick up Cmark on the way?

Smallscontracting · Dec 23, 2019

Thank you all for the pictures and directions. The machine has 4600hrs on it. I called the previous owner today and he said he had the local cat dealer in his area replace the duo cone seal on the other side at around 4000 hours. Both finals had good clean looking oil when I changed both around 75 hrs ago. I think im going to start by tearing into it while it is still on the machine. Once I get inside if I see lots of wear or find something broken I will then pull the whole unit off. I will keep you all posted as progress is made or lost and will post any further questions I may come up with. Thank you all!

kshansen · Dec 23, 2019

Cmark said:
These aren't like a conventional oval track tractor with a dead shaft and tapered splines.

What you are looking at is a single stage planetary driven by a pinion and bull gear. You can dismantle it as far as the duo cone without removing the final drive and with no special tools required. However, the pinion bearings start to wear out on high hours machines so you may want to consider pulling the entire final drive while you're at it. It's up to you.

I just took a quick look at the directions I posted and did not notice any major presses or that kind of stuff. A few special tools but seemed like most of that would be overkill for a one time project. But then like I said I just took a quick look so may have missed something!

kshansen · Dec 23, 2019

Smallscontracting said:
Thank you all for the pictures and directions. The machine has 4600hrs on it. I called the previous owner today and he said he had the local cat dealer in his area replace the duo cone seal on the other side at around 4000 hours. Both finals had good clean looking oil when I changed both around 75 hrs ago. I think im going to start by tearing into it while it is still on the machine. Once I get inside if I see lots of wear or find something broken I will then pull the whole unit off. I will keep you all posted as progress is made or lost and will post any further questions I may come up with. Thank you all!

Just work careful and keep things clean and if you need help I think someone here will chime in.

One question I have. I checked just for fun as to where Wyalusing was and it appears to be just a bit down south in PA. The question is why when you do a Google Maps search on that name does it show a picture of two giraffes?

Cmark · Dec 23, 2019

kshansen said:
I just took a quick look at the directions I posted and did not notice any major presses or that kind of stuff. A few special tools but seemed like most of that would be overkill for a one time project. But then like I said I just took a quick look so may have missed something!

Yep, only maybe a crosshead and porta power cylinder required which I don't consider to be special tooling. You can even avoid this if you're in a pinch by pushing the drive hub off with a couple of bottle jacks braced against the machine frame.

Smallscontracting · Dec 24, 2019

kshansen said:
Just work careful and keep things clean and if you need help I think someone here will chime in.

One question I have. I checked just for fun as to where Wyalusing was and it appears to be just a bit down south in PA. The question is why when you do a Google Maps search on that name does it show a picture of two giraffes?

im not sure, I googled it and I can’t find the giraffes lol

tctractors · Dec 24, 2019

This type of F/Drive is not to bad to tackle you do not need the Patent Lift bracket thing as a single forklift tine with a clever bit of strapping will set the job free, or it can be pulled down a good amount in bits, they are similar to the F/Drives fitted to the Shovel range ( 943-953 etc) I have used simple Enerpac cylinders to pull off the hub but it could be tugged off via a few brain cells I feel. best of luck with the task and lets hope things are not damaged inside. tctractors

Smallscontracting · Dec 30, 2019

I split the track and pulled the segments Saturday afternoon. This morning I started on pulling the final drive assembly. And for never doing it before, it came off very smoothly thanks to all the help you all posted. Now, time to get to that duo cone seal. I got a clean tarp laid out to put everything on in order and a paint marker to mark inside and outside as needed. I’ll keep you all posted!

Nige · Dec 30, 2019

One thing that may seem counter-intuitive is that when you pull the two halves of the worn Duo-Cone seal out of their housings the silicone rubber rings will be drenched in oil. When you install the new ones they MUST go in without lubricant for the seal to function correctly - the only assembly "aid" that is permitted is isopropyl alcohol. Also you have to clean the housings where the rubber rings fit with whatever will get all the oil off them and treat them with the same alcohol.

So you can get your head around how Duo-Cone seals work try this thread. https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/941-bottom-rollers-rebuilds.74258/ - I know it's about track rollers but all Duo-Cone seals irrespective of size to all intents & purposes function in exactly the same way. The larger in diameter you get, the more critical the installation & alignment of the seal is.

There is a pdf attachment SEHS8876 (post #6, Page 1) in the thread that would be extremely good reading for you. Another point to metnion is that, once istalled, the height from the face of the housing to the top of the steel ring has to be measured at 4 points 90-degrees apart around the circumference. There is a maximum permitted height variation between the 4 points that could well be described as "not much" - it's actually 1mm or 40 thousandths of an inch. Often new seals have the plastic height gauge shown in the bottom drawing of Illustration 1 in the box with the seal.

nicky 68a · Jan 2, 2020

Nige said:
One thing that may seem counter-intuitive is that when you pull the two halves of the worn Duo-Cone seal out of their housings the silicone rubber rings will be drenched in oil. When you install the new ones they MUST go in without lubricant for the seal to function correctly - the only assembly "aid" that is permitted is isopropyl alcohol. Also you have to clean the housings where the rubber rings fit with whatever will get all the oil off them and treat them with the same alcohol.

So you can get your head around how Duo-Cone seals work try this thread. https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/941-bottom-rollers-rebuilds.74258/ - I know it's about track rollers but all Duo-Cone seals irrespective of size to all intents & purposes function in exactly the same way. The larger in diameter you get, the more critical the installation & alignment of the seal is.

There is a pdf attachment SEHS8876 (post #6, Page 1) in the thread that would be extremely good reading for you. Another point to metnion is that, once istalled, the height from the face of the housing to the top of the steel ring has to be measured at 4 points 90-degrees apart around the circumference. There is a maximum permitted height variation between the 4 points that could well be described as "not much" - it's actually 1mm or 40 thousandths of an inch. Often new seals have the plastic height gauge shown in the bottom drawing of Illustration 1 in the box with the seal.

I did not know that.
It’s a good job I leave it to Tony

kshansen · Jan 2, 2020

As Nige says the most important thing with those Duo-cone seals is clean, clean, clean!

Forget what machine it was on but recall I was told that there was a problem with the surface of the area the orings went into being too smooth. Believe there was a "cure" of glass beading the surface to give a little grip to the rings. So don't polish that area just clean it good and no oil on the rings or the surfaces they touch. Maybe just one drop of oil on the faces of the two seals(metal parts).

Nige · Jan 2, 2020

kshansen said:
Forget what machine it was on but recall I was told that there was a problem with the surface of the area the orings went into being too smooth. Believe there was a "cure" of glass beading the surface to give a little grip to the rings. So don't polish that area just clean it good and no oil on the rings or the surfaces they touch. Maybe just one drop of oil on the faces of the two seals(metal parts).

We had that years ago on at least two 994's IIRC. Couldn't figure out why a particular Duo-Cone kept leaking on a brand-new machine even after replacing it with new. Then the factory came up with the suggestion that they'd come across some ramps that did not have the required level of surface roughness causing the Toric Rings to slide down the ramp instead of gripping it.

Cat d3g duo cone seal

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