Genie S-65 Engine start up problem

HD21A · Dec 12, 2019

Steve Have a 1999 S65 with with LRG 425EFI fuel injected. Read my earlier posts under ACHD21A. Engine Coolant sensor located on water thermostat housing. This sets the ignition timing and rich-lean settings to the computer for initial engine startup. These settings change as the engine comes up to operating temperature. Mine was the Sending Unit Water temperatue Ford part number F7DZ-10884AA. It is a thermistor controlled sending unit , had a open circuit on the wire wound resistor coil inside the housing. I had the same start, run , rich, lack of power problems you seem to have. Ended up getting mine from Napa, ECHLIN TS4056, Ebay search ( F7DZ-10884AA ) found new units there from $8 dollars and up. As I remember , looking at the thermostat housing, there are 2 water sending unit screwed in, one on left, water temp sender, one on right, electric sender to computer. You will see what it looks like from pictures on Ebay. This site should have my email address if you more questions, even cell phone if needed. Bob

J Steve B · Dec 17, 2019

Update...I received a new MAP sensor today and installed it. I started up the machine and it ran very well, but noticed that the engine oil light was on. I shut it down and found that the plug in on the MAP sensor was not in all the way. Started it up again and it ran like it had been - poorly. Any ideas?????

J Steve B · Dec 17, 2019

HD21A said:
Steve Have a 1999 S65 with with LRG 425EFI fuel injected. Read my earlier posts under ACHD21A. Engine Coolant sensor located on water thermostat housing. This sets the ignition timing and rich-lean settings to the computer for initial engine startup. These settings change as the engine comes up to operating temperature. Mine was the Sending Unit Water temperatue Ford part number F7DZ-10884AA. It is a thermistor controlled sending unit , had a open circuit on the wire wound resistor coil inside the housing. I had the same start, run , rich, lack of power problems you seem to have. Ended up getting mine from Napa, ECHLIN TS4056, Ebay search ( F7DZ-10884AA ) found new units there from $8 dollars and up. As I remember , looking at the thermostat housing, there are 2 water sending unit screwed in, one on left, water temp sender, one on right, electric sender to computer. You will see what it looks like from pictures on Ebay. This site should have my email address if you more questions, even cell phone if needed. Bob

Bob,
Just saw your reply from Thursday. Been out of commission for a few days with ankle surgery.
The sensor F7DZ-10884AA is the one on the right closest to the radiator? If so, I'll try one of those.
I still do not understand why the engine ran great right after installing the new MAP sensor.
Thanks

J Steve B · Dec 17, 2019

willie59 said:
Since it's a dual fuel machine I'd look into getting a propane cylinder and see if the engine will run on propane. If it does that will allow you to run the machine until you get the gas fuel situation sorted out. I had one of those engines that would run like that off and on, engine misfiring, puffing black smoke, running very rich exhaust, then it would just straighten up and run correctly. Then one day by pure luck, when it was running rough, I was doing wiggle test on wires, moved the three wires at the connector at the MAP sensor and boom, smoothed right out, wiggled some more, started running rough. Obtained a replacement MAP sensor pigtail and installed it, fixed the problem. That's the problem with gas spark engines, a number of things can make them run bad or not run. I don't think Genie is going to be much help on that problem, it's the Ford engine problem. If you know a good automotive mechanic you might see if you can get them to stop by and take a look at it, automotive mechanics know more about that engine and it's components than Genie does.

Where did you obtain the pigtail from and part number? Thanks

willie59 · Dec 17, 2019

J Steve B said:
Where did you obtain the pigtail from and part number? Thanks

Oh man, that was over a year ago, I don't recall the part number, but I recall it was a Standard Ignition pigtail that I got from a local O'Rielly auto parts store, likely a common connector used in automotive since they had it on the shelf.

J Steve B · Dec 17, 2019

willie59 said:
Oh man, that was over a year ago, I don't recall the part number, but I recall it was a Standard Ignition pigtail that I got from a local O'Rielly auto parts store, likely a common connector used in automotive since they had it on the shelf.

I appreciate the response. I am thinking it may be an issue with the connection to the MAP sensor since it ran perfectly when first installed and didn't have the connection fully engaged. I am going to check the pins more closely tomorrow (if I can climb the ladder again) to see if there is an issue.

willie59 · Dec 17, 2019

J Steve B said:
I appreciate the response. I am thinking it may be an issue with the connection to the MAP sensor since it ran perfectly when first installed and didn't have the connection fully engaged. I am going to check the pins more closely tomorrow (if I can climb the ladder again) to see if there is an issue.

And if you're in a pinch to use the machine, that's why I suggested getting a propane tank until you get it sorted out, when you're running propane all those fuel sensors and gizmos are not being used, not needed for running on propane, they're only used when running on gasoline.

J Steve B · Dec 17, 2019

willie59 said:
And if you're in a pinch to use the machine, that's why I suggested getting a propane tank until you get it sorted out, when you're running propane all those fuel sensors and gizmos are not being used, not needed for running on propane, they're only used when running on gasoline.

Not in a pinch. I have tried switching to LPG but apparently the switch ahead of the regulator is bad. Hear that is a common issue.

willie59 · Dec 17, 2019

Just damn.

HD21A · Dec 18, 2019

Steve After I got the sensor problem fixed, . I put on new Map sensor and ignition coil packs. I have those Ford part numbers. . Bob

J Steve B · Dec 18, 2019

HD21A said:
Steve After I got the sensor problem fixed, . I put on new Map sensor and ignition coil packs. I have those Ford part numbers. . Bob

I have a new water temp sensor coming from Napa (ECHLIN TS4056) will be in Friday. I unplugged the connector to the sensor and started the machine. It did not change anything as far as running and did not show a code. So I am hoping it is the water temp sensor that is the issue...
You can send me those part numbers if you like, just in case I need them. Thanks

J Steve B · Dec 21, 2019

Okay...I have installed the new temp sensor (the one closest to the radiator) and new MAP sensor pigtail. It still runs just like it did. I unplugged the vacuum line to the MAP sensor while it was running and it didn't change anything either. I killed the engine and restarted it. It backfired (big time) and ran pretty much the same. There are no codes showing either.
Given y'all this vast amount of information, does anyone have any ideas on what to do next?

HD21A · Dec 21, 2019

Steve Years back I found a Ford motor company service manual on the internet which explained the function of these sensors, setting up the computer for start up operation of the the engine. They are part of the timing and fuel richness system and when the computer gets this information , the loop in the computer is closed, and the engine is ready to run. I found this info on a Ford Ranger site, Had done a search on "Ford Ranger LRG-245 EFI running rich, hard to start". The info had been hacked from Ford and several months later, removed from the internet.
Am not sure if you replaced to MAP sensor (Ford Part number F8JL-9S428AB). Mine ran perfect after I replace the temp sensor, I replaced Map and coil packs (Ford F37Z-12029-A) thinking they might be weak also in the near future.
There are also engine crank, cam ,and air temp sensors. Let me check the internet and see what I can find on the engine on the internet. Have about 12 pages of info on the engine, parts location, Ford parts numbers, fault codes. One thing that comes up " Look for bad wire Terminal Connections from sensor to ECM unit. . Will get back to you Bob

J Steve B · Dec 27, 2019

I got the machine fired up on LPG and it runs wonderfully. I first fired it up on gasoline on the 24th and it ran like it was supposed to, but I had failed to put gasoline in the tank with all the things we had tried and it ran out of gas. Put fuel in it and it started running poorly again. Go figure? I purchased a fuel gauge and checked the pressure at the pressure check point on the fuel rail. When running it holds a steady 65psi, but as soon as I kill it the pressure drops off. I do not know if this is normal or should it hold pressure in the line??? I am wondering if the injectors are leaking the pressure or if there is supposed to be a check valve in-line that should hold the pressure. There is a a small apprentice upstream of where the fuel line connects to the vacuum control and I am wondering if that part is a check valve. There are still no codes showing so do not think I have an electrical issue (wiring or sensors). I really think it is a fuel delivery issue. Any further thoughts????

HD21A · Dec 28, 2019

Been searching Switch to propane, electric 65psi gasoline pump shut off, ( computer controlled injector timing stays on, spark timing stays the same but there is no gas to injectors.) The person trouble shooting said , have seen problems when tank runs out, dirty fuel filter, or the manifold supplying gas to the injector rack has air in it. send me your e-mail address , should be able to get it from forum site, if not will send it here Bob

J Steve B · Dec 28, 2019

HD21A said:
Been searching Switch to propane, electric 65psi gasoline pump shut off, ( computer controlled injector timing stays on, spark timing stays the same but there is no gas to injectors.) The person trouble shooting said , have seen problems when tank runs out, dirty fuel filter, or the manifold supplying gas to the injector rack has air in it. send me your e-mail address , should be able to get it from forum site, if not will send it here Bob

stvburleson@yahoo.com

J Steve B · Jan 4, 2020

Still need some advise...I have replaced the injectors and the fuel damper. Still runs bad. I disconnected the water sensor closest to the engine and it ran pretty well. It backfired upon starting but ran okay, not totally 100% but close. The oil pressure light was on with this sensor wire disconnected as well???? With this sensor disconnected it made it show a code for that sensor or the wiring. Why is it running better with the sensor disconnected. If it were bad or the wiring to it I would think it would show a code. Doesn't make any sense.

J Steve B · Jan 13, 2020

Well, did everyone abandon me? I even changed out the O2 sensor and it didn't help.

J Steve B · Jan 18, 2020

coltnovice said:
Suggest you download the manual based on serial number and then check the codes. Had similar problem. After replacing throttle body and other sensors, checked voltages to throttle body and found the ECM was not regulating it. Finally found ECU with same model and problems were fixed. Sold the lift but have extra ECM to sell

Would you mind telling how to check the voltage on the throttle body and what it should be? Just out of curiosity, what are you asking for the ECM? Thanks

Genie S-65 Engine start up problem

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