Thumb thumper gave it up

I don't recall if it went out gradual or all at once, gradual I think, pretty sure I'd have noticed a sudden and total lack of it. Anyone know what's the most likely culprit (assuming the wiring is intact), the part of it up on the winch, or the solenoid under my thumb? I'm thinking the the winch sender unit, because it will cost more and be harder to get to, just a guess. I could take the winch handle apart and get at the solenoid and with a multimeter see if it's getting a signal (grounding, or a "hot" signal, either way) but even that looks like a bit of hassle and before I did anything thought I'd ask here.

I never had one in the last 20 years except since I got the National, and have to admit it is handy and I want it back, even though it's really needed rarely.

The only one that I had issues with, the handle part was bad. I don't think I got a grove replacement, I had a electronics guy just get the little servo motor for it from a electrical supply place and fixed it that way.

Does yours have the wheel sender unit on the rim of the winch, or the little flat plate down at the middle? The new 40 ton I got a while back doesn't work either, and I'll have to mess with it in a while, if you figure out your problem, you can just tell me how to fix mine.

That's the thing I like the least on my liebherr, it doesn't have a thumper in the joystick like the later ones do, it just has a counter on the dash that shows movement direction and feet of cable, I'm watching the load, not the dash. I've thought about retrofiting a greer wheel, and mounting it by the armrest where I could have it on the heel of my hand or something.

Everything else has rotation indicators, and I really don't like running without one.

We had a Link-Belt with the sensor in the gear reduction. Got moisture up in the case that froze and ripped the tip of the sensor off. Took us a while to figure that one out.

Here's a pic of what seems to be the "counter", or sender, thing that goes in the winch. The wiring, what I can see of it, is in fine shape and well protected . My first move, before I get too excited, will be to see if the mounting machine screws are froze up and will be stripped out easily. IF NOT, I'll see what happens when I pull it out and see if anything eyeballs wrong physically. About then I'll also determine whether or not the winch gear fluid gushes out. "Expect the worse, that way you won't be disappointed" method of mechanics.

What I’ve found more times then not is that the solenoid in the joystick is bad. The thumper itself is just a little metal plunger type deal that sits on a spring. The solenoid is under the spring. Spring pushes up, magnet pulls down. That’s how you get the thump. Most times the spring breaks. The easiest way to tell is to pull the thumper out of the handle, flip it upside down and hoist down. If it thumps you know you have a bad solenoid. I don’t believe the internal spring is serviceable.

I appreciate the input, I've been too busy (doing work where I wasn't working blind, so the thumper was really of marginal use) to mess with anything. Except.... pull the panel for the fuses that sits to the right of my foot throttle, and lo and behold there is a designated fuse for the thumper! Thinking I'd get off easy, I checked and no joy, the fuse is good. Next move will be to pull the stick apart to get at it.

Was the fuse good with a test light or did you visually check it? I been tricked before with the visual test..

Good point. I did it while working, standing up 18' walls and then having 30 minutes of dead time. The National's in cab fuse box is nicely laid out and well labeled which helped a lot. I pulled the existing fuse, and it eyeballed good, then pulled another fuse of the same rating, which was in the "spare" labeled slot, and also eyeballed good, and still nothing. Pretty unlikely two that look good, could not be, but I'll take my multi meter next time just in case. Yeah always check the simple things first!

Natman said:

Good point. I did it while working, standing up 18' walls and then having 30 minutes of dead time. The National's in cab fuse box is nicely laid out and well labeled which helped a lot. I pulled the existing fuse, and it eyeballed good, then pulled another fuse of the same rating, which was in the "spare" labeled slot, and also eyeballed good, and still nothing. Pretty unlikely two that look good, could not be, but I'll take my multi meter next time just in case. Yeah always check the simple things first!

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LOL, If two fuses were both bad and yet visually good you'd better go buy a lottery ticket cause luck like that ain't common!!!

Forgot to bring my multimeter today, to triple check the fuses, but did pull the handle apart to expose the thumper. It LOOKS fine, and before cutting it's wires and bench testing it with a 12 volt battery, I'll pull the sender thing in the winch and eyeball that for any obvious breakage first.

I did get a $50.00 tip today, cash, ho ho ho!

I put the winch handle back together, with it's top mounted thumb thumper, after determining/guessing that it seemed to be fine, then went out on a Saturday morning job. At one point, I realized it was working, I also realized I often don't have my thumb in a position where I could feel it working, even when it is. This now leads to believe IT, not the sender in the winch, is the problem, like Kneppetune suggested, though I forgot to test it as he mentioned, darn it. I'm just going to order another one Monday regardless, can't cost more then 3 or 4 hundred dollars, assuming the usual crane parts markup I've experienced in the past!

I can't remember if it stuck up out of the winch control more then in this pic, I think it did, about another 1/8" or so, looks too far down to me.

Natman said:

View attachment 207184 I put the winch handle back together, with it's top mounted thumb thumper, after determining/guessing that it seemed to be fine, then went out on a Saturday morning job. At one point, I realized it was working, I also realized I often don't have my thumb in a position where I could feel it working, even when it is. This now leads to believe IT, not the sender in the winch, is the problem, like Kneppetune suggested, though I forgot to test it as he mentioned, darn it. I'm just going to order another one Monday regardless, can't cost more then 3 or 4 hundred dollars, assuming the usual crane parts markup I've experienced in the past!

I can't remember if it stuck up out of the winch control more then in this pic, I think it did, about another 1/8" or so, looks too far down to me.

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What’s on the side of your handle in the picture?

Tradesman said:

What’s on the side of your handle in the picture?

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I think that's the "don't bump your butt on the handle" guard.

The two speed winch button is mounted low on the stick, for whatever reason, and all that lever does is allow the operator to hold his hand higher on the stick, thumb on the thumper, and by squeezing that handle activate the speed control. It gets natural in use, ergo correct, though my previous Manitex had a simple 2 position toggle switch on the panel that did the same thing;

Got ahold of the SLC National dealer, the parts guy tells me my serial number (on the turret placard, no chance that it isn't correct) shows it as being for a totally different type of boom truck, not even close to my model, the fun begins.

Natman said:

The two speed winch button is mounted low on the stick, for whatever reason, and all that lever does is allow the operator to hold his hand higher on the stick, thumb on the thumper, and by squeezing that handle activate the speed control. It gets natural in use, ergo correct, though my previous Manitex had a simple 2 position toggle switch on the panel that did the same thing;

Got ahold of the SLC National dealer, the parts guy tells me my serial number (on the turret placard, no chance that it isn't correct) shows it as being for a totally different type of boom truck, not even close to my model, the fun begins.

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That's interesting on the two speed lever- sounds like a operator add- on, got pictures? Every winch two speed I've got is just toggle switch. Also- do all national's have the winch and boom backwards? I'd have to be unbolting handles and switching. (Tradesman is going to think they are in the right position, but he's wrong, don't listen to him- winches are always on the far right). I can't remember which way the sticks were on the last national joystick machine I ran.

Also- I hate to tell you this, but the whole Grove, national, manitowoc factory dealer support system, is going down the tubes, right with the company. Their stock price has been hammered, they've got a idiot running the company into the ground. The only hope is a private firm, (that will only want to bleed it for the value and sell it) or something like tadano buying demag from terex. I see dark days ahead for the company as a whole, and its a shame. The new ceo is only interested in the stock price (which his pay is tied to), not building a good machine for a fair price and having good service after the sale- that leads to a long term stable business.

Stock setup, near as I can tell, at least the parts book has it as mine is set up. I am waiting to hear back still for my thumper part as the parts guys took the entire holiday off. As a self employed type, I'm going REALLY....New Years day was Wednesday, so,may as well take Thursday and Friday off also, and oops, now it's the weekend?! Must be nice, I worked New Years eve until 4, then 10 hours Thursday, 5 hours today, Saturday. Monday I am going to ring him up, he should be rested up enough by now to get my part ordered. Sorry to hear that about the National company, bummer, I really like this rig for my my size of work, and plan to keep it long term, until I die or retire, whichever comes first. The custom stainless steel bed and cribbing racks are real nice in winter, as opposed to my earlier painted beds and racks. I like the Mack carrier also, and being a 2007, no DEF BS.

As to the controls....boom up/down on the right, winch to the left of it, everyone knows that! At least us National and Manitex guys...., I have a method where I can boom down while winching up, all with just one hand, while with the other hand I can be reaching for the coffee cup or changing the radio station, I don't know any better so it works fine for me.

I finally got ahold of the needed parts guy at my National dealer, the one who seems to have taken off from the 23rd of December to the 6 th of January (must be nice) and it turns out that he indeed did get my email with the parts call out and request to phone me when he got it, just hadn't got around to it yet. The solenoid is not available just by itself, but hard wired into a loomed wire harness that goes clear up to the winch, so when I get it I will simply cut off the harness and solder it into the existing wiring. The price....only $340.00, what a deal. I keep reminding myself it's a business expense, I can write it off.... that helps, and I expected to get raped on the price so no real surprise. In one of my earlier posts I guessed between 3 and 4 hundred bucks, I thought I was joking but wasn't.

The small solenoid in the thumper is a standard electrical component that you don't need grove to get for you, if you have a electronics guy, he will know what it is and can get you one to replace it. Try grainger or a electrical supply house.

I will do that, (and saw an earlier post saying the same thing) so if it goes out again I'll have a spare handy. Having already put off fixing it too long, when I unexpectedly finally got the parts guy on the phone, and having just had a couple real good weeks (money burned a hole syndrome) I took the easy and stupid way out and just got my CC out. I simply wanted it right now, and got in an expensive hurry. I have had a very long stretch of no problems at all with the National, over 3 K hours, that helped ease the pain a bit also. I did a similar thing back when I had a Manitex 101S, the push pull cable (no pilot controls) on the winch control was 3-4 hundred, the next time it broke (broke twice, ice partially to blame, no inside heated building back then) I replaced it for less then $50.00, using a local farm equipment supply house, it never broke again either! I don't recall seeing any ID #'s on the thing, the solenoid, that was another factor, and not having a ready source in things electrical I took the cowards way out. I scrimp more often and better then most, every now and then I splurge. Back to scrimping now.