Fat Allis Next Surgery

crane operator · Dec 8, 2019

Our starter and alternator shop closed a couple years ago, couldn't compete with the price of new components. Although I personally preferred them rebuilding my old unit to a cheap new import starter.

Ronsii · Dec 9, 2019

Nobody rebuilds around here anymore... even a few of the big names I've seen mentioned on HEF sell the same cheap import items I can get from ebay or direct from china... of course they slap their label on it but it's still the same crap

Birken Vogt · Dec 9, 2019

Our shop goes back to the 1940s but I think the old starter and alternator business was drying up so they diversified a little. They sell a lot of car batteries of higher quality, do charging system diagnosis in the yard (always did that) and rebuild and repair all kinds of motors and related stuff. They also work on well pump systems and also work on giant old motors that may be in use in some mill or whatever. Keeping with the times and all that.

4x4ford · Dec 9, 2019

I know there is a shop here in jackson but I’ve never used them and so far haven’t met any one here that has

DMiller · Dec 9, 2019

Today was a little better than last two.

DMiller · Dec 9, 2019

The way these transmissions shift is in this mess. The large aluminum hub is actually a Hydraulic Cylinder with the trans shaft the piston for the cylinder. The clutch packs reside in place and the drum is oil shifted one end to the other for different ranges, floating at center is essentially N on Both shafts. This is why I suspect something stacked in the Lo Rev Clutch. Gears float on shaft with External Hubs, internal Clutch hubs spline to shaft. And bag of Cylinder seals, end collector seals.

Old O-ring hard as rock and flat faced, minimal if any true contact to Cylinder wall.

Mother Deuce · Dec 9, 2019

Ronsii said:
Nobody rebuilds around here anymore... even a few of the big names I've seen mentioned on HEF sell the same cheap import items I can get from ebay or direct from china... of course they slap their label on it but it's still the same crap

9112 E.Marginal Way... Blanchard Electric is still doing it. They used to just rock. https://www.blanchardelectric.com/index.php/about-us/11-about

kshansen · Dec 9, 2019

DMiller said:
The way these transmissions shift is in this mess. The large aluminum hub is actually a Hydraulic Cylinder with the trans shaft the piston for the cylinder. The clutch packs reside in place and the drum is oil shifted one end to the other for different ranges, floating at center is essentially N on Both shafts. This is why I suspect something stacked in the Lo Rev Clutch. Gears float on shaft with External Hubs, internal Clutch hubs spline to shaft. And bag of Cylinder seals, end collector seals.

Old O-ring hard as rock and flat faced, minimal if any true contact to Cylinder wall.

View attachment 206549 View attachment 206550 View attachment 206551 View attachment 206552

That transmission clutch assembly looks like it came out of an old Hough Payloader! Did a few of them back in the day!

Trying to remember, were they a Rockford built unit? Been maybe 30 years since I worked on on of those

DMiller · Dec 9, 2019

Rockford supplied much of Allis needs

kshansen · Dec 9, 2019

DMiller said:
Rockford supplied much of Allis needs

I remember there were a couple tricks to getting the aluminum drums off the shafts.

Your's probably came apart pretty easy if the large orings were as hard and flat as you say. The large orings that seal the large diameter part of the drums if still somewhat plyable could get hung up in the snap ring groove.

One trick we used was to remove the snap ring and push the two housings together to have better access to the groove and then find a piece of say 16 gauge insulated wire that just filled the snap ring groove but not enough to prevent the housings to slide apart with a little grease.

The other method we used was after working on the first one was to purchase a spare snap ring and grind the ID down to the point it filled the grove but did not catch on the inner housing.

As I recall the inner part of the snap ring groove was chamfered to let the oring pass un-damaged.

Ronsii · Dec 9, 2019

Mother Deuce said:
9112 E.Marginal Way... Blanchard Electric is still doing it. They used to just rock. https://www.blanchardelectric.com/index.php/about-us/11-about

I'll have to double check on them, I thought the boss called them on the alternator for our 120 and they put us over to romaine electric... so the boss heads over there and takes the old one with him and comes back with the identical unit I had ordered off ebay the said made in china... and says they told him they don't rebuild these anymore or starters for the hoe... I suppose on really big motors and generators they would still rebuild and rewind but on the smaller stuff we haven't found much...

DMiller · Dec 9, 2019

kshansen said:
I remember there were a couple tricks to getting the aluminum drums off the shafts.

Your's probably came apart pretty easy if the large orings were as hard and flat as you say. The large orings that seal the large diameter part of the drums if still somewhat plyable could get hung up in the snap ring groove.

One trick we used was to remove the snap ring and push the two housings together to have better access to the groove and then find a piece of say 16 gauge insulated wire that just filled the snap ring groove but not enough to prevent the housings to slide apart with a little grease.

The other method we used was after working on the first one was to purchase a spare snap ring and grind the ID down to the point it filled the grove but did not catch on the inner housing.

As I recall the inner part of the snap ring groove was chamfered to let the oring pass un-damaged.

You are correct except not going back O-ring
These had a .265 oring and nobody makes anymore
Going Quad Ring expander to a teflon composite rub ring seal as used in current hydraulics. Makes up for the difference a .250 oring cannot.
Are correct the drum has a bit of chamfer where the hat side fits in and that aids in compressing the expander.

DoyleX · Dec 10, 2019

Started reading this thread and thought it was myself with the deer hunting (my shots are hit the mark) and fat allis work. Customers final drive disaster till the sub zero cold passes.

DMiller · Dec 10, 2019

Poor old AC has seen better days!!

DoyleX · Dec 10, 2019

Best thing about it, the new undercarriage. The end.

DMiller · Dec 10, 2019

Both shafts resealed today and back in the case, gaskets cleaned off and front cover back in place. Then had to take a break as upholsterer local had my seat pieces done needed them out of his way. Tomorrow reseal Collector heads and reinstall input bearing/gear.

DMiller · Dec 10, 2019

DoyleX said:
Best thing about it, the new undercarriage. The end.

What did ya use on the Master Pin? Replacing sprocket or oil leaks? That may end up as to how I access my Right side Final and sprocket shaft.

DoyleX · Dec 10, 2019

DMiller said:
What did ya use on the Master Pin? Replacing sprocket or oil leaks? That may end up as to how I access my Right side Final and sprocket shaft.

Exothermic torch. Burn out the center. If I cant find another one I'll just cut one on the lathe out of some cold roll.
Got a really bad crunching noise and clunk from the final. Was lessened after I loosened the fiddlestring track but still there. No pieces in the drain pan but it hasn't moved 500ft since the noise started.

As to taking off the track frame no way did I want to dig into the 2 taper fit bushings that hold the loader frame to the track frame. All the hardbar bolts would have snapped off also. Dont mind snapped bolts but the 2 unubtainum taper bushings no.

DMiller · Dec 10, 2019

I hear ya on the unobtainium pieces

DMiller · Dec 10, 2019

As to the noise
These were hard on pinion gears and bearings getting loose
With a rear cover, drained and may be able to visual on the pinion

Fat Allis Next Surgery

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