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Counterweights on CAT 259D - weight ratings

S

Satish

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Nov 29, 2019
Messages
51
Location
Bloomfield Hills
Hello, I have a 2015 CAT 259D and ordered the counterweight kit from CAT. I'm confused about CAT's published ratings for the 259D with the weights installed.

The specs WITHOUT the weights are:
ROC @35% tipping is 2030 lbs
ROC @ 50% tipping is 2900 lbs

WITH counterweights
ROC is 3100 lbs. Is this based at 35% tipping or 50% tipping?

Are the counterweights worthwhile or do they only SLIGHTLY improve the machine's capabilities? I have brick paver pallets that need to be moved roughly 20-30 feet along the ground. Each pallet weights 3546 lbs. I've seen plenty of videos of 259Ds moving items weighing much more than the suggested spec limits of the machine.
 
Cmark

Cmark

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
3,178
Location
Australia
When a manufacturer specifies an ROC it has to include the possibility of the load being lifted to full height, so it will always be conservative.
Skid steers aren't primarily intended to be used as a crane/material handler because ground conditions, working angles etc are outside the control of the manufacturer. Counterweights are meant to be used to help on machines with heavy work tools.
The machine has the hydraulic strength to lift the rear end any day of the week. In practise, if you move a pallet six inches above the ground and the machine tips forward, no biggie. You reduce the load and start again. If you lift it six feet in the air and it tips, then the ensuing chaos is your fault.

If you're wanting to move a load outside of the ROC but within the physical capabilities of the machine then there's no doubt it can be done. Whether or not it's done safely is all down to you.
 
S

Satish

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2019
Messages
51
Location
Bloomfield Hills
Cmark said:
When a manufacturer specifies an ROC it has to include the possibility of the load being lifted to full height, so it will always be conservative.
Skid steers aren't primarily intended to be used as a crane/material handler because ground conditions, working angles etc are outside the control of the manufacturer. Counterweights are meant to be used to help on machines with heavy work tools.
The machine has the hydraulic strength to lift the rear end any day of the week. In practise, if you move a pallet six inches above the ground and the machine tips forward, no biggie. You reduce the load and start again. If you lift it six feet in the air and it tips, then the ensuing chaos is your fault.

If you're wanting to move a load outside of the ROC but within the physical capabilities of the machine then there's no doubt it can be done. Whether or not it's done safely is all down to you.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the reply. So, CAT states that a 259D with the optional counterweights has an ROC of 3100 lbs. Is this ROC @35% tipping? In other words, do the counterweights add another 1070 lbs of capability?
 
Cmark

Cmark

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
3,178
Location
Australia
Here's some info from SIS


Note: Rated loads should be used as a guide. Attachments, uneven ground conditions, soft ground conditions, or poor ground conditions have effects on rated loads. The operator is responsible for being aware of these effects.
Rated loads are based on a standard machine with the following conditions:



  • lubricants

  • full fuel tank

  • Cat bucket

  • 75 kg (165 lb) operator

  • 10 x 16.5 tires on 226D, 232D

  • 12 x 16.5 tires on 236D, 242D, 246D, 262D, 272D, 272D2

  • 14 x 17.5 tires on 272D XHP, 272D2 XHP

  • Undercarriage with 320 mm (12.6 inch) wide tracks and dual flange front/single flange rear idlers on 239D, 249D, and 259D machines.

  • Undercarriages with either 400 mm (15.75 inch) or 450 mm (17.72 inch) wide tracks and triple flange front/rear idlers on 279D, and 289D machines.

  • Undercarriages with 450 mm (17.72 inch) wide tracks and dual flange front/single flange rear idlers on 299D, and 299D2 machines.

  • Undercarriages with 400 mm (15.75 inch) wide tracks and triple flange front/rear idlers on 299D XHP, and 299D2 XHP machines.
Note: All Caterpillar Premium Conventional tires are at the suggested operating inflation pressure. Refer to the Operation and Maintenance Manual, "Tire Inflation - Check"
for the proper tire inflation pressure.

Rated loads will vary with different attachments. Consult your Cat dealer regarding the rated load for specific attachments.

Note: The Steel Track Undercarriage attachment will increase the rated operating loads inch the following tables by 191 kg (421 lb) for 299D and 299D XHP and by 103 kg (227 lb) for 299D2 and 299D2 XHP machines.

The rated operating capacity (ROC) is defined by "SAE J818:2007", "ISO 14397-1:2007" and "EN 474-3:2006 + A1:2009" as the least amount of weight of the following conditions:



  • 50% of the full static tipping load for wheeled machines

  • 35% of the full static tipping load for track machines

  • The lifting capacity to maximum height
The corresponding dump clearance is given for each bucket at maximum lift height and at a 40 degree dump angle. The reach is given for each bucket at maximum lift height and at a 40 degree dump angle. Clearance is measured from the ground to the bucket edge to dump the load. The reach is measured from the front tire to the bucket edge.

And

The 388-7875 Counterweight Kit increases the machine ROC by approximately 45 - 57 kg (100 - 125 lb) depending on the model and may be required for machines that use heavy work tools or handle dense loads. Two kits may be combined to increase the ROC by approximately 91 - 113 kg (200 - 250 lb) depending on the model.
 
Cmark

Cmark

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The full document is over 100 pages long. DM me with your email address and I'll send you the full thing if you like.
 
R

RTSmith

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
421
Location
Middle Tenn.
Occupation
Amateur demolition & dirt pusher
Having run my 289D for a bit when new while I waited on the weights to arrive, I can assure you they don't add 1000# capacity. The 200# @ 50% would be my guess. To your question- every little bit helps. But I do notice when I track around with no tool on, it is a bit more front jumpy. But I never remove them for general farm work.
 
S

Satish

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2019
Messages
51
Location
Bloomfield Hills
RTSmith said:
Having run my 289D for a bit when new while I waited on the weights to arrive, I can assure you they don't add 1000# capacity. The 200# @ 50% would be my guess. To your question- every little bit helps. But I do notice when I track around with no tool on, it is a bit more front jumpy. But I never remove them for general farm work.
Click to expand...

Generally speaking, is there a reason to remove the counterweights? I just assume leave them on all the time.
 
R

RTSmith

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
421
Location
Middle Tenn.
Occupation
Amateur demolition & dirt pusher
When scooting around without any work tool, it seems a little lighter on the front. But I've never taken mine off. I reckon if I was going to do a lot of work in finished yards removing them may help cut down ground disturbance, but otherwise I see no reason to remove them.
 
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