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Hammer03

Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
14
Location
Michigan
Bare with me new to the site and first post.

I am considering going into business for for myself kind of. I am partner in a residential framing business currently and have we have rented many boom trucks for our jobs. Although we have rented in the past it has always been a goal of mine to buy, own, and run a 40-50 ton boom truck. This way we could utilize a crane much more and would ultimately I think be more efficient and quicker. Currently we use 6036 Telehandlers for our jobs now but I think I could eventually replace our telehandlers with boom trucks making work easier on our employees and essentially reducing employees (not by choice, you just can't find anyone that likes our kind of work today).


So with that being said (sorry for all the background info), if my plan ultimately fails and it doesn't work out as well as I was expecting I would have myself a boom truck business I would be having on the back burner which would turn into my full time job. What I am asking is some general cost break downs on maintenance, fuel, insurance, ect.... you know all the fun stuff that no one thinks about, broken down in a $/ crane hour figure. Just looking for some values to see what the bottom line would be at years end. Also would need to know how much of a discount to give my own company in the first scenario but making sure there is enough at the end of the day for general upkeep. I plan to buy if not new 1 - 3 years old with minor use so I am hoping this would help out with lower maintenance and higher efficiency. 40 Ton boom trucks rent for around $130-140/hour in my area.

Thanks for all the advise in advance!
 

Vetech63

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2016
Messages
6,362
Location
Oklahoma
I'm sure the regulations on boom trucks are stifling. You would need to be insured heavily and I believe you would need to be certified as an operator. All this is BIG money in the lifting industry. I used to inspect cranes years ago and the cost of owning one was so expensive most all of the companies that had them...….lost them as quick as they could. I have been out of the crane game for years now, but I imagine the regulations are even moreso now days.
 

Impact

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
517
Location
Kentucky
Occupation
Owner
I'm going to attempt to weigh in here. I'm bad about rambling but here goes.

I did a quick search for 40-50 ton boom trucks. I'm using $450,000 as a price you could buy one for 2-3 years old. If you are like most people you will have to finance it. How long would you want to finance it for and what interest rate can you get? Myself when investing I like to see a 7 year pay back or better. Probably would be tough to do. So, I've amortized a $450K loan at 10 years at 7%. That is 120 monthly payments of $5,224 per month. You say boom trucks are going for $130-$140 per hour. right of the top you have to have an operator. I notice you are in Michigan. I'm in Ky. I'd think Michigan labor rates are higher than here. But here I need $50 per man hour to pay the person and all of the labor burdens. that leaves you $80-$90 to got towards the actual crane expenses. Average that at $85. $5,224 divided by $85. you need 61 hours per month just to pay for the crane.

As you have already said there are other expenses.

Insurance
First off a boom truck is a truck with a crane attached. You will have to insure the truck and crane separately. I have an old 25 ton boom truck. I am also in the construction business so I have an entire fleet of equipment. My insurance is quoted with all my equipment lumped together so I can't get a figure on JUST the boom truck very easily. But do know unless you deal with an insurance carrier that understands cranes you are likely to be under insured. While the crane itself is insured the load I'm picking up is NOT insured w/o a riggers policy. also I found out, if I overloaded the crane, it was not insured. I pay an extra for that. They call it a boom rider. To me, anytime I might damage a crane boom, it would be because I overloaded it. Just be careful with insurance. There is a lot to it.

Maintenance
Who knows. If all the costs I mentioned above are being met, you should be profitable. If you're profitable, you should be able to maintain the unit.

Crane/Boom Truck
I really don't want to step on toes or start a debate. But in my opinion I'd rather have a older crane than a new boom truck. I have a 2001 Grove TMS 760E. It has a 110' live boom, 56' 2 piece jib and two 20' inserts. I'd guess it to be worth $150,000-$175,000. I think the most major repair bill we had was for an engine overhaul. Maybe $25-30K. I get $175 per hour for it, and I should go to $200. At the same 7% rate and 10 year terms it takes about $2,000 per month to service the loan. $175 less the $50 operator leaves me $125 per hour. $2,000 divided by $125 is only 16 hours per month.

If you can service the loan on a new boom truck in 10 years, you could service the loan on an older truck crane in 2-3. Just something to think about.

In my business I really can't justify buying cranes for the crane rental business. I really can't justify buying cranes for my construction business. But with both crane rental and construction, I can make it work.
 

crane operator

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,274
Location
sw missouri
A one to three year old 40-50 ton boom truck is like impact said 400,000- 450,000.

https://www.cranetrader.com/listing...-national-nbt45-mounted-on-2015-peterbilt-567


I charge $140 a hour for my 25 ton truck crane and 23 ton boom truck- its no big secret what my rates are, anyone can call my office and ask. As a general figure, I figure $60/ hr for the man/operator and $80/hr for the rig, which includes the fuel and upkeep. I really don't keep track of my exact costs any closer than that (my book keeper does- and I should- but I enjoy running crane more than pushing pencil).

In the rental game, you can bill maybe 800- 1200 hours a year average per crane, there's a lot of 3 hour jobs that want you there at 10:00 which will shoot your whole day. If you billed out $100,000 for the year, the man costs you $50,000 the other $50,000 will get 1/2 ate up by the fuel and insurance and minimal upkeep. So you might turn $25,000 if you don't break anything big. Unfortunately, if you borrowed the $ for the $400,000 rig, you're losing $ unless you are really really busy.

Which is why I don't own or run a $400,000 40 ton boom truck (that and I'm a big tight wad). The crane will never pay for itself. It only works if you have half the $3-400,000 already (or a awful lot of it), or are using the housing/ building income to help pay for the crane.

Not that it can't work, tradesman and natman both run a boom truck on the forum here, and you would do well to read through both of their threads. Neither one started out with a brand new rig, both started with smaller rigs and worked up, and tradesman has a really nice new rig. But neither one of them are paying a operator, they are both owner operators. So if you first have a $50,000 rig, buy, pay for it and sell it, then a $100,000 rig, and then a 180,000 rig, then you're 1/2 way to a new one, and you now have 10-15 years of experience too.

I do a little more commercial type work than what you are talking about, so I have a lot of overhead around in trucks and trailers and a shop building and rigging, baskets, forklifts, tools, spreader bars, etc. etc. But you can go out and make $ setting trusses and AC units with a few nylon straps and some steel chokers and park it in your yard, and set your own trusses.

A lot of general builders around here use a 10-12k telehandler with 54' boom and have a man basket and a 20' truss jib and forks, and frankly, that is a much more useful piece of equipment than a boom truck for most operations on a residential jobsite. Less liability, no certification of operators, and the insurance requirements are way way less. Nobody here uses the small 6036 telehandlers that you have, they are just too small and won't reach enough.

And I guess I'll just throw this out there for what its worth too: I don't have $400,000 invested in all of my cranes put together, let alone just one.
 

Tradesman

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2013
Messages
1,075
Location
Ontario
Occupation
Contractor
Time for me to jump in, Crane op is correct it took me a while to get to a new boom truck. like you I'm a carpenter, forth generation and my son is a journeyman carpenter as well, when my Dad got to my age he started a lumber retail and supported me in the building trade. We build mostly custom houses but do light commercial and agriculture as well. about 15 years ago I saw an old 8 ton pitman for sale and bought it and the rest is history. In order of purchase, 8 ton pitman $8,000 , 8 ton national $20,000, 23.5 ton Ro stinger/ Terex $60,000, 32 ton Elliott $ 140,000 and finally last spring I purchased a brand new 30112s Manitex $ A,lotofmoney.
I'm in a rural area and only go to the city for existing customers ( I'm a farm boy and have an aversion to city folks )
There is a living to be made within an hour of my shop, but getting to be the " guy" is a pile of work it means offering something better than the guy they have used for ever. I'm not going into that, but you have to be good and you and your equipment have to be reliable. I agree totally with Crane op. I have put a very concentrated effort into it for the last 6 years and just this last year it has grown to the point that I'm in a position that I could hang up my hammer, but I will keep up the building for my son, supporting him as my Dad did for me.
I could not afford this crane and put a hired operator on it, unless he liked pouring concrete and driving nails as well. As an owner operator when the crane jobs done for the day I put it in the shop and jump in my pickup and hot foot it to what ever house we're building and drive nails for the rest of the day, go home have supper then go do my invoicing, client calls , estimating, service work and inspection on the crane, then load trucks for the next day so I'm not paying my employees to load them in the morning. So as you can tell there's nothing to it. Good luck in what ever you decide to do.
PS. running a crane is the most fun you can have with your pants on .
 
Last edited:

Tradesman

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2013
Messages
1,075
Location
Ontario
Occupation
Contractor
Please don’t take my comments as negative, I have know idea What the opportunities are in your community, it might be a no brainer for you to invest in newer equipment and take advantage of your local market. I am only relaying my personal experience to you. As I said before the best of luck to you and if you go ahead with your crane venture, it goes without saying we expect picture.
 

Hammer03

Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
14
Location
Michigan
Thank you everyone for all the input, advise, and past experience it has for sure been eye opening. I have been researching and trying to do all my homework on everything and came across these small self erecting tower cranes. More specifically a potain igo ma 21 or 14.
Very interested and much more affordable in my scope of work. I see the load chart is drastically less with these machines but running the number I still feel confident that I could make good use out of it. Our main use would be woof trusses, wall panels, and possibly a steel beam every once in a while. Anyone have experience with these or have even seen one in person? A few years ago one town over had one set up but it was one of the biggest models they make. Valcciro makes a model too that would work for me. As always thanks in advance!
 

Knepptune

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
757
Location
Indiana
Those MA21’s are designed specifically for houses. Keep in mind your need electricity tho. They’ll run off either 230v or 480v so if the electricity has already been ran to the house they’ll run off a dryer hookup. But if you don’t have electricity you’ll need a generator. There is nothing else out there that will setup in a 14’ square and handle 1500 lbs at 85’. You also have to remember that’s at 60’ up. You can set that crane up hard against a 50 foot building and go straight in 85’. It takes a fair sized hydraulic crane to go in 85’ in on a 50’ roof. And you throw in the fact that’s it’s remote controlled. The operator isn’t tied to a seat. The operator can either be the ground man hooking everything up or right up in the action landing the loads. If I was building houses I don’t know of a better crane.

In the right applications there is nothing else that will do what they can. BUT it’s not a taxi crane. Your not gonna set it up multiple times a day. It also doesn’t have hydraulic outrigger. The 14’x14’ pad needs to be basically flat or you need a good bit of cribbing. And your not 3-legging it onto cribbing. You also have to consider you need a truck that can pull 40k. A dump truck would work as you can either use a 5th plate that bolts on or a pintle hitch.
 

crane operator

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,274
Location
sw missouri
They use a lot of those small tower's out west building large cabins/ mansions on mountaintops. They aren't fast to set up, and you really want to be level.

I used to move a little larger one for a apartment builder, he would have us load it on a step deck and unload it at his next project and set it on a pad.

I think the smaller ones that have a 5th wheel and a set of tandems under the base would be great for moving more often. I looked at buying one a couple years ago, but I'm usually not anywhere long enough to justify the set up time, or, the building is too long and I would have to move it multiple times to reach the whole building- we do a lot of condo/ apartment type buildings. They really aren't that expensive, I just really doesn't fit in my business model.
 

Knepptune

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Messages
757
Location
Indiana
I pulled the spec sheet on that crane. I was wrong. It does have hydraulic outriggers. If you’ve ever set one of those up you’ll understand how big of a deal that is. I also wasn’t aware that you can buy the crane with its own generator onboard. That’s nice.

When on 230v it takes a 20A circuit breaker. On 480v it takes an 11A breaker.

The bigger ones are a bit of a pain to setup. The igo t130s go up to 120’ and 164’ out. It’s a days work to set those up. But they also have 90 some thousand lbs of counterweight and you have to manually install the mast sections. But once again, there is nothing else that will setup in as small of an area, go straight up 120’ and in 164’ with 3000 lbs.


These smaller ones they’ve gotten the erection time way down. They’re still not as fast as a hydro but it’s an hour or two instead of all day.

 

Hammer03

Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
14
Location
Michigan
Very interesting thats for sure. I would say 85% of our jobs have power on them but that is nice to know with the generator option mounted right on the unit. I have two Honda 5000s I would have to guess those would supply enough power.
 

Hammer03

Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
14
Location
Michigan
Also I looking for a quicker set up time and would like to not have to mess with hauling extra clunter weights on another truck. So I think the best fit would be the Igo ma 21 or the Igo ma 14 unless I'm not seeing something. I did find another brand that a dealer carries in Colorado viccaro I beileve (spelling is most likely wrong) but they are an italian company and mostly based overseas with just the one spot in Colorado In the states.
 

Buck-Rogers

Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2019
Messages
11
Location
Titusville Florida
Gunna jump in here, I know this thread hasn't seen much action but I'm in a similar boat.
I'm 26, ran boom trucks and terex T340s for 2 years, then went to work at the Kennedy Space Center operating some larger GMKs.
however, I'm looking at coming back in Indiana to start up a lifting service around the south side of Indy.
my big question is, what crane type would we want to purchase? I'm not a huge fan of boom trucks, because of the limited capacity, but I would want more reach that a T340 or TMS540 would give me (<100ft)
currently I'm looking at a 2001 TMS760E and a TEREX T560. but what do you guys think would be the most consistently manageable machine for a taxi service?
thanks!
 

crane operator

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,274
Location
sw missouri
what crane type would we want to purchase?

That makes a big difference on who exactly the "we" is. I'm guessing at 26 the $200-300,000 for the crane, isn't yours. It takes deep pockets to get going. Because the crane itself is only 1/2 the start costs. You'll need a place to park it, work on it, insurance, rigging, trucks, trailers, etc. etc.

As a one crane operation, a 60 ton has a lot more capabilities than a smaller crane, but its tough to get into the more industrial type/ larger jobs as a new outfit in town. No one trusts you or knows you. And being 26 just makes that worse. Because you just don't have enough experience, for all the varied work that comes up in rental. Of course the only way to get that is to be out doing it.:)

To start in rental, you have to be either cheaper or better than the existing companies, actually- usually both.

In starting out, its usually only the little guys that are going to take a chance on you, and those jobs aren't usually the jobs that require a bigger crane. So you may be just buying more crane than you can sell.

You really need to know your target market, and what can you offer that the existing companies can't. And how long you can hang on, until you have your own customer base. A smaller crane may give you a better chance to not have as much $ invested, and a way to get started in a new market. A 60 ton is going to be a little large for most HVAC change outs, and house truss jobs. Which can be the bread and butter for a start up.

But indy probably has quite a bit of industrial work, and maybe a truck crane will give you more options. I don't know the local situation enough to tell you the sweet spot in crane size, for that region. I really think a 60 ton by itself, is maybe a little large starting out, because you won't have all the other stuff (trucks, trailers, forklifts, storage yard) the industrial customers are going to expect you to have available, to get those industrial jobs.

But everyone starts somewhere, good luck.
 

Birken Vogt

Charter Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
5,305
Location
Grass Valley, Ca
One way to buy your way in would be to find an older guy who is a one-crane operator and buy him out. This way you will at least get some of his customers instead of starting from scratch. Plus he will presumably have a yard and all the ancillary stuff figured out to some degree to get started.
 

Buck-Rogers

Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2019
Messages
11
Location
Titusville Florida
Crane Operator-
Thanks for the input!
I really don't want to over shoot in crane size like you said.
My strategy with the 60T would actually be taking advantage of the fact that most one man shows are 40t cranes or smaller, so I could service the 40-60t market without charging the $200-250 rate that maxim or ALL-crane might charge. (I would look at something between $165-175)
However at the same time, If 90% of my work starting out is the bread and butter work like you said (trusses, signs, HVAC, etc.) than I could easily derate my crane and only charge $130-140 for any jobs requiring less than 100ft of boom.
That's where my head is at with it.
Though I'm not opposed to something like a TMS540 with the optional 115ft 4 section boom, or the TMS640 like we were discussing in my main post, the 640 would really help keep the startup cost down, I only worry that due to it's age (1996) it might be less reliable.
And the popular T340-TMS500 both are nice, but those <100ft of boom is a tough selling point for me :/
 

Impact

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
517
Location
Kentucky
Occupation
Owner
I have a TMS 700 (60 ton) crane. It is actually my smallest and the only crane I consider a taxi crane. By taxi crane I mean I typically send the crane and one operator. It is self contained other than inserts I have but seldom use. In my area the 60T is the largest I can run as a taxi crane.
While I dont disagree with craneop, well maybe U do. I cant see much cost difference in operating costs of a 40 ton or 60 ton crane. I do have some that protest at bringing such a large crane for such a small lift. I get $175 and hour with a 4 hour minimum. ($700). I do have a 25 ton boom truck. I get $125 and hour with a 4 hour minimum. ($500). If the difference between the costs is a deal breaker then I question if I need his business
 

Buck-Rogers

Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2019
Messages
11
Location
Titusville Florida
Impact, do you do a lot of driving to get to jobsites?
in my area at least, I've never heard of a 4 hour minimum on a boom truck.
I've been searching for a deal on a 700E, but haven't had any luck.
 
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