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Deere 310A Backhoe wont start

Delmer

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In the videos, I hear the tractor crank fine for a second, then slow down. Then you say it won't re start after you shut it off, won't turn over, like it's locked up. That sounds like the pump is trying to pump while it's cranking, it's not supposed to pump while it's cranking, the starter motor doesn't have enough power to do that.

The solenoid on the hydraulic pump is supposed to shut the pump off, it's called destroking because it's a piston pump and the pistons don't move when it's destroked or shut off. When the pistons don't move, there's no load on the pump and no load on the engine, and the engine cranks faster and starts easier.

I would have somebody crank the engine while you hold a piece of steel near the end of the solenoid, you should be able to feel the magnetism while it's cranking, and not while it's not cranking. If you don't, then check for voltage while cranking, and check the coil for resistance/ohms with the wires disconnected. Even if you do feel the magnetism, then the inside of the valve could possibly be sticking, you'll need some better pictures than I have to mess with that. But we can find it when you get to that point.
 

comet424

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canada
oh ok. so if its locking up why does it work when its cold say?... so basically this solinode is like a manual clutch on a car.. press clutch in and it stops tranny same with cranking it should push the pump in and wont turn pump..
can I do I by pass since I really don't have another helper... but run a wire from the battery to the solinod or is it like a starter relay ment for high amperage but not ment to be on continuous or it burns out..
as I figured I could do it while im standing there? … and I wanted to attempt to rebuild the pump as I mentioned years ago I had no hydraulics till I fixed the wire on the coil... which probably ment that destroke was stuck in the on pos as I had no hydraulics im guess.. but ya for years I experience this issue I mentioned above.. but ill try to work on that today or tomorrow see if it sticks..

I cant afford a rebuilt pump and having someone rebuild it probably costs just as much … but if its simple like pulling solinode out and parts there that be ok.. other then that I have to wait till summer as all the repairs be outside in the snow... but
ya ill take a better video and such... and is it ok for me to just run a wire from the battery to the coil.

and if the valve sticks can I spray break cleaner in there like I was told to loosen up the injector pump metering valve?
 

Delmer

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No, don't spray brake cleaner in there, it would need to be taken apart and examined to see what is wrong, but we're not there yet.

Yes, the solenoid is meant to be on only with the starter. I do not recommend hooking any external current to it, on or off the hydraulic pump. You can get a manual, or have somebody else look at it if you want to go further. You can get or make a remote start switch to be able to crank the engine, but that might not turn on this destroke solenoid, so you need somebody to help.

I think it was loading up the hydraulics in every video I saw after a second or two. I'm not sure why it locks up completely when hot. but not cold.

The part about having no hydraulics from that solenoid wiring being bad doesn't make sense to me. Can you explain what you found was the problem and what you did to fix it? if you remember.
 

comet424

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Oct 29, 2014
Messages
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canada
ah ok ill try remote start wire as the soilnode wire is wired to the start wire on the starter solinode to make it work.

ah ok so hydraulics are running when you start the engine you say... ya I never wanted to touch the piston pump was told you need special tools and youi cant do it by yourself.. so I never tackled it years ago.. if it has to come out id wait till summer as I cant afford afford to have it looked at ...

from what I remember when I was using my backhoe everything was fine this was like 6 7 yrs ago roughly.. next day or same day I was using it after cooled down as I was pulling rocks on my farm..
well all the hydraulics stopped working.. I think the outrigers lifted up the bucket didn't work the hoe moved ever so slowly. something like that.. so I wrote on this forume for help and in end I replaced pressure release valve piston that slides in the pipe and that didn't help.. then later I didn't have the pressure I have a pressure gauge hooked up right now permently to the pump so I can always see the pressure...
and I still hadn't the pressure but the wire at the solinode was broken off so I resoldered it and I also did the adjustment on the bottom of the pump to get the idle psi up to 2500psi.. and then I think it started working again..
but ya I have a pressure gauge always hooked up to the pump so I can monitor it.. also I miss placed the plugged to put it back so I just leasge the gauge hooked up
but that's roughly what I remember
 

comet424

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Oct 29, 2014
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canada
hi sorry delay.. had other things to do and never got to it... I didn't have anyone to help so I just ran battery to the wiring.. didn't even get a spark when using alligator clips.. I made video where I had liquid electrical tape years ago.. but I thinking about it never worked??
also its not in the video but I set multimeter on it.. I set it to 20 and initial contact I get 100 but give it a second or 2 to setting down... I get 3.4 3.5 ohms I do not know if you that is ok or not?
and can I order that part? not through john deere as im sure that part be like 100 200 bucks lol.. does amazon sell it.. and not sure what you call that coil destroke coil??
but here is the video anyways
 

comet424

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Oct 29, 2014
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canada
I googled to search and found jd site but the solinode they show doesn't look like mine
https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/sidebyside/equipment/68895/referrer/navigation/pgId/2174

oh and I tried starting with the solinode off and ya still cranks slow and needs starter fluid to start..

so I guess whoever said the pump is turning same time.. and probably why when the engine is hot running for an hour say and I shut off and I cant restart as the pump is under pressure and that's why the starter wont turn it over for 10 min I bet??
 
Last edited:

Delmer

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What they show looks like it includes the core that is on your hydraulic pump, not just the coil that you have taken off in the video.

3 ohms sounds good to me. You get 12 V to that connector when you crank, right? The only other test is to see if a small piece of steel will stick to that coil when installed on the hydraulic pump and cranking.

That coil says 6VDC, that means don't hook it up to 12V and expect it to live, and don't hook it to any volts without a core in it. That's what I'd do anyway.

We're trying to see if the hydraulic pump is not destroking, another way to check if the pump is keeping the engine from cranking is to use the backhoe bucket tilt function while trying to crank it. If the bucket is curled all the way up, use the valve to uncurl it while you crank, that will prevent the pump from building high pressure, and might allow the starter to spin fast enough to start the engine.

Your explanation in post #64 didn't make sense to me, there could be more going on here than we know about. So don't be surprised if this goes in different directions, but try to work at it one step at a time, and we might get somewhere.
 

comet424

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Oct 29, 2014
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canada
ah ok.. so couple things then
yes I get 12 volts to the wire.. as I have the wire to the starter's key wire at the solinode.. but I also seen on google a photo from a 410a they have I guess the destroke on the other post on the solinode.. is that a 6volt post? as you mentioned 12 volts wont make this coil last long.. so why is it 6volts if the system is 12 volts?? and so 3 ohms is good? how come when I do hooked up to 12 volts I don't get least a spark? and what I also tried is stick a screw drvier through the hole hook to battery for a a couple seconds.. and it never stuck but ill re put it back on and try again... like its always started slow since I my father got the backhoe 20 years ago so probably wasn't working then?/ but ill re test it again..

I was going to to unhook the pump from the direct drive but the damn rad is in the way to unbolt the 2 bolts lol... but ok ill re do that the bucket curl.. I didn't do that last time I was doing bucket lift … does it matter with which you curl it? and why is it the curl prevents the pressure?

so in message 64 you were asking about why I thought it was the destroke coil and what happened from my best memory of why I lost 100% hydraulics.. I was explaining what happened 6 7 yrs ago what I was doing then what happened with 0 hydraulics.. then I explained I replaced the 150 dollar pressure release valve didn't work.. and I explained I liquid electrical taped that coil and I adjusted the bottom of the pump the nut to increase the oil pressure to 2500 psi at idle.. reason you also seen in the video I have it permently attached to the the pump as I miss placed the bolt since then... so I have the gauge hooked up all the time.. sorry with my dyslexia it sounds good to me.. but doesn't always sound right to others...
but ill try the curling... and ill retry coil... I just didn't have long enough wires to jump the starter by the coil ...but ill re try all today
 

Delmer

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In post 64, nothing made sense to me that would cause the problem, or fix the problem. You shouldn't have to adjust the pressure on an old machine, and that shouldn't cause a sudden and total loss of hydraulic function. I understand what you did, I don't agree with doing it, or that it fixed the problem.

It's a 6V coil to be sure it works with the cranking voltage, and it shouldn't have power to it for very long, so it works fine. But you can burn it out according to the manual.

The reason I say to use the backhoe bucket curl is because there's no weight on it. The backhoe stick extend could be better because it's a shorter hose and bigger cylinder, swing the stick in or out a foot while attempting to crank. The loader won't do the same thing because the priority valve will not allow the loader to use all the available pressure, only high pressure.

I'll say it again, I would not test that coil with voltage when not cranking. The screwdriver may not have felt anything because it was the core as you describe it. With the coil on the pump, a piece of steel should stick to the coil while cranking. If you insist on putting power to it, then put a bolt through the core of the coil, and see if that bolt will stick to another piece of steel, or if the bolt will have resistance to pulling out of the core.
 

comet424

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oh ok. I guessing you mean bucket as the hoe bucket not the front bucket.. as I was making video uploading 2.. where I was cranking the engine and curling the front bucket and it was building pressure..
and as for 12volts what I mean is isn't cranking 5 10 seconds still worse then 1 2 seconds on a battery? just touching with alligator clips? since im right there... as I crank 5 seconds and that's putting 12 bolts to the coil for 5 seconds.. where as when I use alligator clips and battery directly to coil I doing like half second to 1 2 seconds just to see if it holds?.... but reason I changed the pressure release valve is and adjusted pressure
when I went to John deere place the mechanics said you probably need to replace the pressure release valve 150 dollar piece of pipe that's by that oil filter under neath where I had that changing the line..
they also gave me photo copies out of the book stating.. when the engine is idling the pressure has to be set to 2500 psi or the hydraulics will not work.. so reason I had to adjust it and that's when it worked after I did both those changes and the electrical taping the coil.. so I don't knoe what really made it work again.. but that's where I got the piece of pipe and the 2500psi from the john deere mechanic


but ill try the hoe bucket curl.. see if it spins faster.. as I was doing the front bucket curl up and curl down.... and I priced out a coil from john deere just under 500 bucks after taxes frig lol

but ok I going to test the curling of the hoe and see what the pressure says

thanks for the help so far... as I wouldn't really know and I been dealing with this for years
 

comet424

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so I just took a video doing the back the hoe part.. now it did start I make a crap video and I going to take another one tomorrow when its cold and I haven't tried starting 10 times curling the front bucket

but facing the back putting the bucket curl to the left which curls the bucket up still started slow but it fired up... and if I shut it off and did to the right.. it started too
but it could been from me starting multiple times.... so ill upload my 3 videos .. I did 2 front bucket curls the first video stopped.. and then I took a 2nd video.. and then the 3rd video did the hoe part..
so ill re do one tomorrow when its sat and its cold.. and current battery level is 12.5 after all that starting.. so ya ill re try trommorow when she good and cold or ill try this afternoon 5 pm or so... just not good and holding camera and trying to start lol..
and ill try the bolt thing too.. with the coil.. as maybe this thing burned out 20 yrs ago when we got the backhoe.. didn't know any better.. just after 2 starter rebuilds I just wanna make sure I fix it properly
and I appreciate all the help :) learning something new every day :)
 

Delmer

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If it starts today without starting fluid, then I'd fix your block heater and leave it sit until you need to use it.

I forgot about your pressure gauge, you really need a helper to crank this so you can check if the coil is magnetizing while cranking, and watch that gauge to see if it moves when cranking, it will move a little, but you shouldn't get even 500 PSI.

The loader will do nothing to relieve the pressure on the pump, the backhoe or steering have priority.
 

comet424

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ok I remember someone saying something about a T or something like that
ahd I don't remember anyone saying about vice grips and pulling plunger out? how you do that?
on the shaft the coil sit on.. does it inside pull a plunger toward the outside? in it..
as I jumpered the starter with booster cables.. and put a screw driver to the coil bolt nothing stuck to it.. I took a video of my procedure..

but ok.. you talk about taking the destroke plunger out.. so that means pull the coil off and unbolt the shaft right? and then crank and the oil should pour out but start faster correct? and whats the bolt on top of the pump for? but ill try that too..
with my dyslexia I miss read and sometimes miss stuff.. like when mentioned bucket curl I thought he ment front bucket.. but when he detailed it above he said the front bucket does nothing its the back bucket that releases pressure..


but ill give it a try
 

comet424

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ok I pulled out the plunger... so where do I hold it with the vice grips?.. I put it back in while typing this as I didn't know how much oil is going to pour out so didn't wanna waste it incase the transmission drains all out

and I didn't wanna pull anything with vice grips on it not without you guys seeing pic... as I never done this before
 

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Delmer

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You sure aren't afraid of tearing into things, are you? that can be good and bad.

As far as I understand, the plunger is internal in that piece in your hand. That piece is the destroke valve, so you can blow that out with compressed air, make sure there are no bits of junk in it, etc. You MIGHT be able to see the plunger operate if you put power to the coil on that valve, with it outside the pump. The destroke valve BUILDS pressure inside the crankcase of the pump (NOT the outlet of the pump), that pressure pushes the pistons against the return springs and they don't touch the crankshaft, so they don't move, and there is no load on the engine, and no output of the hydraulic pump. It will leak out that opening if you crank it, I don't know if the pump will destroke or not with that out, I don't think it will.

The T handle somebody mentioned is found on models without a destroke solenoid, as far as I know.
 

Tinkerer

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I know nothing about John Deere hydraulic pumps.
I thoght I could clearly see the plunger exposed in Comet's video.
Evidently the solenoid is sealed on the pump and is flooded when in operation. That would explain at least to me why the plunger cannot be pulled out with the solenoid off of the pump. Yes ?

pump.png
 

comet424

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@Delmer I didn't want get in trouble for not doing something in an earlier post I supposedly missed about removing the plunger and use vice grips to hold it..
I been trying to upload a 18 second video of me taking out but poor internet takes several hours as the pic isn't the clear...
I cleaned it and blew air through it.. and I hooked it up and cranked it and I guess there is a little rod down in there that's supposed to push out?? well nothing moved.. unless there is missing parts? as I don't know if I missing parts if something broke years ago
but nada... I put my fingering there hole figured there is something in there in the pump

so anyways I confused what you said which is the output pump I know there is a pickup pump in the tranny and then there is the hydraulic pump... but then you mentioned crankshaft.. is that the shaft in the hydraulic pump is what you ment
and with my dyslexia I have to re read and re read so I read your comment 10 times...
im a visual learner not so much word learner.. reason I ask for pictures or I do videos I can explain better in videos then words

so basically from what I understand what you said is while the engine turning the the pressure builds... and when the destroke valve is engage there should be a rod pushing out the hole that feels like a big ass ball bearing in there that rod should be pushing on.
I dunno
all I know I don't see nothing moving in that puppy I don't get a spark if I just do the coil to the battery just for split second you know like touching battery cables together to get a spark u don't get anything like that .. like no draw..
im thinking its broken and I don't know how to test the coil if its working or not just the 3.4ohms I got

so ya I trying and still my video didn't upload but I going to test the ohms again see what I get
I appreciate the help.. im guessing I need a new valve but can I not just but a new coil? instead of buying the whole unit?
 

comet424

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damn video finally uploaded … I going to post a couple better pics of the valve maybe there is missing parts?
and my pictures sucking I cant get close up but where you see I liquid electrical taped it doesn't look like a lot of wire strands there I electrical taped it 6 7 yrs ago...
but im thinking I need a new coil..
now can I get just the coil? john deere in Canada dealer is 490 dollars after taxs
is there a place I can get it cheaper?
and yes seems to start when I curl the hoe bucket up (pull lever to the left) but I not testing anymore today ill try tomorrow morning when its -minus weather out as its plus weather now...
I appreciate the help hope I didn't waste anybodys time...
as im pretty sure the coil is cooked.. its like a battery says it has 12 volts but just doesn't have the amperage to do anything.. maybe has the ohms but not enough to pull anything

im done for today and will try one more time tomorrow morning
 

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