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Deere 310A Backhoe wont start

fpgm04

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Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
214
Location
USA
Regarding the slow crank, I agree with Greg and Delmer. Suggest you start over with the basics. Double check all the hydraulic lever positions to insure they are in the neutral/middle position. Sounds something like the stabilizer lever has been bumped and stuck open causing loading of the hydraulics during crank.
 
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edgephoto

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Aug 13, 2019
Messages
727
Location
Stafford, CT
If you have a slow crank you should be checking that the starter is getting enough voltage and current. Start with measuring battery voltage during crank. It should stay close to 10-11 volts. If it is dropping to 8 or 9 volts your battery is either worn or does not have sufficient capacity for the application.

If the battery checks ok then you need to voltage drop the starter circuit. Voltage drop will tell you if you have a bad cable or connection. You make the measurement while the starter is cranking. Set the meter on DC Volts. Connect one lead to the positive terminal and the other to the positive connection at the solenoid. Crank and observe the meter. Now do the same on the ground side. Connect one lead to the negative terminal of the battery and another to the case of the starter. Crank and observe the voltage.

In a perfect circuit you would read zero volts. In reality anything above .5volts means you have unwanted resistance in the circuit. This would be a poor/corroded connection, missing ground strap, or corroded cables.

If the battery voltage is good and the voltage drops are acceptable then you know your slow crank is not the battery or cables. You are down to a bad starter or high friction in the engine.
 

comet424

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Oct 29, 2014
Messages
220
Location
canada
sorry had headache yesterday and hadn't check replies.. I worked on pump and took couple videos.. I haven't tried starting yet.. due to the rains constant rains as I had issues cutting the line for return not much of a spot for a pipe cutter so I ended up cutting it with plyers cutter.. and I got some steel pipe to make a new one but pooring out so I didn't make it out there
so video 1
video 2


now to try to answer your comments/questions
for current drop never did that.. but I did the voltage test
so at the battery was 12.51v and at the starter was 12.49v that is with using a bolt as ground the main bolt for lining up the front of the backhoe when you pull it away when doing the engine..
battery is only a month old and was built I guess in march from the sticker I guess..
I had shinned up the terminals and the ground fittings as you seen in the 1 video I posted in this forum shows what I all cleaned up...
I do not know how to check a stabilizer level..
but I noticed I didn't do the bucket curl I did the arms lift so was lifting the bucket in the air not curling the bucket my bad... and that had no effect it would still crank that slow contstant speed..
same with the steering wheel the wheels would turn but no change

as for the T handle I don't think so I know I have on bottom where I adjusted the pressure when I had low pressure several years ago I had to adjust it so when idling the pressure would be 2500psi I think it was.. but im sure nothing on top
and has a solenoid for that destroke I show the power wire that goes to the starter key post.

as for checking cables.. I had taken off and wire wheeled them.. there is only 2 cables.. 1 goes from battery to tranny and the other goes from battery to starter.... as I mentioned I only did a standing voltage didn't try when cranking... ill have to get some alligator clips to hold it and crank then...

so hopefully that helps
hoping to finish the job today … and hopefully I loosened up the metering valve enough 2nd video moved a lot easier

Happy Halloween
 

Delmer

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Jan 3, 2013
Messages
8,864
Location
WI
IF it pumps fuel out the injector lines, then we're halfway there...


I can't remember, if I ever knew, but there might be more to the metering valve. They get gummed up like that from sitting with bad fuel, I'd spray a good squirt of flammable brake cleaner in there and keep working that spring for a full minute before you put it back together. The acetone will help with cetane also, so no harm to leave it in there.
 

edgephoto

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Aug 13, 2019
Messages
727
Location
Stafford, CT
When measuring voltage drop you have to do it when the circuit is in operation otherwise you are only measuring potential. You will not be able to measure unwanted resistance unless current is flowing.

Measuring 12.51 at the battery when the starter is not operating is not really telling you anything. Measure it when cranking. If it goes low then you know the battery is no good. Just because it is new does not mean it is good. It just means it is new. Also it could be good ust of insufficient capacity. Again just because it says xxx CCA on it does not mean it really is that good. Some off brand batteries are not what they advertise.
 

comet424

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Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
220
Location
canada
ah ok well I took the battery out and get it testted
I didn't get a chance to do the break cleaner.. but I did get it to start.. its running..and when you guys talked about loading up does that mean the injector pump is causing the engine to nto turn fast enough as its putting a load on it and the fuel cant goto the injectors?

so I had to use the starter fluid to get it startered.. it still turns over slow.. but it fires up but dunno how well it will be in winter... and in the video can you tell me if the starter is spinning to slow still??? … also I found a hydraulic leak.. its above the oil filter I was able to tighten the 90 elbow but slower leak.. is there a speak wrench to get up in there.. or can you extend a 90 degree elbow so you can tighten then behind the oil filter?

well here is engine running

and here is the hydraulic leak... if I have to re post in a new message ill do that.. but figured Id ask


but thank you all so far with all the help to get this engine running again :)
 

thepumpguysc

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Mar 18, 2010
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7,445
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Sunny South Carolina
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Master Inj.Pump rebuilder
U might be able to get a crows foot on an extension positioned in there??
Or a line wrench... OR u might have to move that rubber hose sleeve UP & out of the way..
The way it looks.. your gonna have to put a wrench to the grinder & shave it some.. just to get it in the hole..
Good luck.
 

Tinkerer

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May 21, 2009
Messages
9,342
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The shore of the illinois river USA
Can you slide the hose up and away from that fitting to get better access to it ?
It appears that just the wall thickness of the hose is preventing a tool to get in there.
There are times you have to take three of four different lines and fittings off to get access to the leaking one.
 

comet424

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Oct 29, 2014
Messages
220
Location
canada
well I tried 4 times what I did was there 2 bolts that hold that oil holder on.. then I used a wrench and pryed the hoses to the the wrenches in there and I really horsed it on used my foot on the one and pulled the other wrench least I hope I really horsed it still frigin leaks

can the 90 degree elbow leak? and if so I never replaced one do they just unscrew and you tighten till tight and where ever it lands is what you work with.. or can you screw in and then another nut tightens to the direction you want..

and ya I think I gotta grind the damn pipe...
I don't get it why they have to be like this who designs this crap lol make it soo terrible.. even john deere mechanics complain they have to make tools lol
 

thepumpguysc

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Master Inj.Pump rebuilder
Don't grind the pipe.!! Grind the wrench..
Is it leaking where the 2 connectors meet.
or is the bottom fitting leaking at the block.??
If its leaking at the block, the bottom of the fitting..
it looks like an oring seal type of connector.??
Or it may have some kind of "packing" to seal the nut to the surface..
BUT we wont know till its out..
BTW> they wouldn't make it to where, u have to grind a pipe to repair.. {think about it..}
It "looks like" a simple job for someone that has the proper tools.. a crows foot on an extension & a ratchet.. or even a "line wrench" crows foot.. I have both..
 
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comet424

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Oct 29, 2014
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220
Location
canada
sorry my dyslexia i ment grind the wrench... things sound right in my head I just don't always type it out proper
and its leaking out of the joint where the hose goes in of the elbow I also took the hose out I figure I might as well replace the hose too it doesn't look damaged just cant get it tight enough
and it has a rubber o ring I pulled it out but I take some pics tomorrow.... its kinda simple job its a pain when you cant get in there and its cold and it just snowed.... but ill gte you pics in the morning
 

T-town

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Aug 5, 2014
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353
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NE PA
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retired !
Hey Comet,
Just wondering.... from the angle of the video ( from underneath) .... did you remove that rear tire??? That area becomes a bit more manageable with that tire removed.
 

comet424

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Oct 29, 2014
Messages
220
Location
canada
sorry for the delay.. this was the video I was to post of the oil hose and fitting nto sure what you call the fitting but I bought a new one and a new hose.. I got it on struggled.. and I tightened lots so far no leaks I did feel like I was over tightening the fitting and hose??
but here is old video I had made

I never took tire offf as its too hard for me by myself to handle with a hernia and back problems so I struggled.. but ya looks like you can do better job with tire gone..

my other question I been dealing with years.. is... the backhoe runs for say 30 min or so working it if if I shut it off.. I not longer can start the backhoe unless I let the backhoe rest 10 min.. then it will fire up.. its like its engine siezes and you cant turn the engine... but I have proper level of oil.. this is been doing it for years.. has anyone ever experienced this?
 

Delmer

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my other question I been dealing with years.. is... the backhoe runs for say 30 min or so working it if if I shut it off.. I not longer can start the backhoe unless I let the backhoe rest 10 min.. then it will fire up.. its like its engine siezes and you cant turn the engine... but I have proper level of oil.. this is been doing it for years.. has anyone ever experienced this?

This is the same issue as your slow cranking after the first two seconds. I don't know what else to tell you though.
 

comet424

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Oct 29, 2014
Messages
220
Location
canada
ah ok.. and are you supposed to be able to start it without using starter fluid? is the starter fluid only for winter? as I have to do it when warm

is it possible the rings expand and get stuck and needs 10 min to cool down? is there a way to test compression on this engine as I have no idea and can you change the rings and sleves if has without pulling out engine? and I wont tackle this till summer... just asking if that could be possible and or how I test come next year

as least its starting in the minus 5 degrees.. but reminds me I need a coolant heater as its broken I mentioned..
I really glad you guys helped me out getting it started... and to find what brand this was etc that I didn't have to spend 500 again for injector pump... im sure that's what it was before in the past 10 yrs ago when I paid 5 600 for injector pump bet they never did any adjustments lol just wiggled that meter valve
 

GregsHD

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Sep 26, 2014
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Mahood Falls, BC
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It is your front hydraulic pump loading up as I said before. Go the the LH side of the front pump, check for power with a test light when cranking at the destroke valve coil.

If you have good power and the coil is secure remove the destroke valve and inspect the seals. You can test the magnetism of the coil once removed with 12v and a piece of steel (screwdriver) in doubt replace the destroke valve assembly.
 

comet424

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Oct 29, 2014
Messages
220
Location
canada
I don't know what it means loading up.. meaning creatring pressure? I know in the past I had to fix the solenoid on the pump wire was broken.. so if now power to the relay I had no hydraulics period.. once I fixed it after trouble shooting everything that fixed the issue.. didn't need to buy this special 150 dollar pressure release valve shaft insert bt the oil filter.. bout several years ago..
but I dunno if that solinod really does that ???? as I don't know what a destroke really does..
can you show pictures by chance.. one we under a winter storm so I already got a foot of snow more to come.... but im a visual learner not so much words...
is there a way you can show a picture what I need to look at …….
but ill try to look at it tomorrow once I can get to it..

but maybe you can explain what that valve does.. and does no power to it really cause several years ago I had no hydraulics I did have to adjust the screw underneath to get the pump to goto 2500 psi at idle..
and is it "loading up" causing that I cant start the backhoe after I shut it off?.. I don't know a lot of the termnolgy.. I can fix stuff just I fix stuff by seeing too ...
 
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