Novice -- to tracked skid steer loader -- questions

Although I've lurked around this forum since we purchased our first CAT TLB, well over a decade ago, I feel like a newbie when it comes to asking questions about tracked skid steers ... but we've never owned any type of skid steer, so here goes...

We would greatly appreciate it if anyone with experience would first let us know if a tracked machine like the one I just described is a liability when it comes to icy conditions? I've heard and read varying reports on this and, long story short, any machine we buy will have to be operated in a mountainous forestland environment and, therefore, will be subject to icy conditions. I realize that any machine with rubber under it is subject to sliding around on the ice, but I'd really like to know if rubber tracks are simply out of the question on the ice or not?

I'd also like to know if anyone has any thoughts on good "track steer" and our regular "skid steer" candidates for use in a rocky environment? As the price of these machines has been inflated so much in recent years, we would be in the market for a low hour used machine with a cab for the winter months.

Thanks for your time,
Hand

You can buy stud kits for the tracks for operating on ice.

Ian ..... I appreciate your reply, but I have to ask (due to your location) ... Have you tried using a tracked machine with studs on the ice? Obviously, we never have, so this is an important question.

No, I have not. There are videos on youtube to augment your research.

I use a tracked skidsteer with a snowblower for private snow removal. Basically nothing works very well on ice unless you have chains or studs.

If you encounter ice, you just have to get to where there’s no ice to get traction (ie: side if the driveway).

Depends too on the track pattern you have. The large block lug tracks are the worst. I have an ASV that has good winter tracks. There is also a dedicated winter track - Polar, I think - that us supposed to work real well.

I’ve never used studded skidsteer tracks. I have to assume they are like my studded snowmobile tracks though, which work quite well. They don’t encounter the stress though like you’d have on tracks on a heavy, spinning skidsteer.

My ASV is ok in the snow and ice - as long as you are not on a side hill. It has bar type tracks that are just like skis on a side hill. Several feet of snow is no problem to run through. We use it for plowing and have never really had a problem except for pure ice or glazed packed snow.

We don't use studs. I think they would really dig in if you are on bare ground and make it really hard to turn and stress the tracks. With the price of tracks we try to really be careful with them and avoid damage.

As for rocks, we find they are really damaging to tracks. Especially if they are sharp edged and you have a heavy load on. Tracks don't seem to absorb objects like a tire does. Now we do run close to or past tipping load with the big tree spade on so that really puts a lot of weight on a small area when it is up on the front idlers.

One thing to consider, many track machines have much lower ground speed compared to a wheel machine, if that matters to you. That is why we also run wheel skidsteers.

Having said all that I would never get rid of my CTL. The ride stability and all terrain capabilty is well worth any negatives.

I have a large frame tracked machine and a large frame wheeled machine. If I am operating on ice, the wheeled machine with chains work the best. Deep, heavy snow and the track machine will run but the more you walk on the snow the more slippery it gets. I have never run studs or the polar tracks on the CTL. Using high quality chains, and I mean high quality, double chain type with high wear steel and I typically chain all four wheels and you can go about anywhere. The last pair I bought was about $250 per axle if I remember right. However they are worth the money. As for rocks, my CTL spends a lot of time in river type rock which is smooth. Worth pretty well and the tracks don't get cut up, however if your in sharp rock that would be entirely different. What little I am able to gather from your post, I think wheels would serve you best. If traction is an issue in the Summer you can also hang OTT on the wheeled machine.

I hace an ASV RC30, tough lil bugger, used to use it to feed cows, when I wasn't workin much, in the winter... Hadda alter locations, along the fences, so I wouldn't make a mess along just a spot or 2, in the feeding areas. Took a round bale along a side slope, on the north side of a building. I should say side slope, that also goes downhill while on the side slope. Well I mashed the stick forward, and she did a 180, and slid till I hit a sunny spot. didn't slide much sideways, just did a 180, then backed down the rest of the way! If I hadda do it every day in the ice, I'd go with the studs, but here in MD, now that the cows are gone, i'll leave it alone! Look on Youtube for the stud videos, for your particular machine...

Snow is livable using caution not to spin tracks Ice and hard pack snow there is just a lack of control they can take off on you just like a dozer or hoe will Icy mountains sounds scary...
If we used ours more in the winter I would have a set of snow tracks just like we put snow tires on everything else makes a huge difference and I think I CTL would be the same way I would prefer that over studs

After reading all of these informative posts, I see that I should have described our work environment in greater detail.

We own and manage a large parcel of forest land in the Berkshires region of western MA. Although the land is terraced, to a certain extent, it is still on the side of a mountain. The gravel access roads have been tamed by us over the years, but they certainly exceed a 10% grade in four or five areas, which makes moving snow with a TLB fairly treacherous and, more to the point, rather dangerous. In addition, we moved into a new house located close to the forest property I just described, and it has a steep asphalt drive (over 400' in length) with a large parking area at the top (adjacent to the house). Now ... I thought that I had done a lot of slipping and sliding on the ice on the mountain ... but the new asphalt drive made the gravel access roads seem rather tame by comparison.

The point is that I'm pushing 60 now and, quite frankly, a potential rollover in a southern TLB -- while seated in an OROPS -- just doesn't make sense to me anymore. At least with a tracked or wheel type skid steer with a cab, the center of gravity is much lower than I'm used to, so I'm looking forward to an inherently safer/warmer work experience. By the way, the machine I'm asking about in this thread would sometimes be used in areas with low stumps and rocks, so low ground clearance, although not a definite deal breaker, is an issue to consider.

I'm also thinking that our terrain might not be the best place for track systems with a lot of plastic parts, so I'm hoping that someone might have some thoughts on machines with steel track systems. I'd also love to read some thoughts on which used machines hold up better than others.

Thanks again for everyone's time.

Just a thought... Tire chains front and rear for your application.

Only risk free way for ice control, on a steep driveway...


I wouldn't want to pay the electric bill, though...

I still think you are best with a chained up wheeled machine. A couple keys to success would be keeping it clean to minimize ice build up. Another, would be to put ice melt down routinely (they make a skid steer attachment for that as well) and I would use fertilizer as the ice melt (more cost effective and works well). As for machine if your talking new, I would go with sub 75 hp to stay out of SCR, a radial machine would be ideal, simpler lift system and better visibility. You can chose the method of control be it mechanical or EH. If your wanting to save money mechanical is cheaper and less to go wrong. As far as what OEM, it would matter what dealers you have around you and some OEMs don't offer mechanical or the ability to change patterns electronically. A number of things to consider.

I really don't mean to come out of left field on everyone here, but I was wondering if anyone has ever seen or heard of a snowblower being attached to a loader bucket?

Being totally unprepared for the premature (and massive) first winter snow storm we got last year, we moved our CAT 420D to the house and used it to take care of our steep 500' asphalt drive. As I mentioned in the last post, I did more than my share of slipping and sliding on the new drive ... but using a loader bucket to "scrape" snow off of an asphalt surface is clearly less than ideal. In short, I believe that a snowblower would've gotten the job done faster which, in turn, would've resulted in less compacted snow, which, needless to say, would've created less icing.

In summary, I was wondering if anyone has heard of a snowblower being fastened to the inside of a backhoe bucket? I've seen photos of large diesel-powered snow blowers being used on municipal backhoes, but I believe that those may have been pinned directly to the loader arms of said backhoes. My thought is to (possibly) use a mag drill to create mounting points for an engine driven snowblower -- like a Bercomac Vantage unit, for example -- then mount a set of new tires we already have in storage onto a set of used wheels we also have in storage and, lastly, drive a set of carbide ice studs into the new tires. Yes, I would still freeze my old rear end off, but this would be a much less expensive alternative to adding a CTL or a wheeled skid steer to our accounts payable list.

Skidloaders and rubber tracs have aux hyd. they make many hyd driven snowblowers, to fit a standard SS attachment plate... But you will still have the same traction issues with whatever drives the blower...

That would seem to me to be a PINTA.

Have run Rubber and steel tracks in slick conditions, tires are no better for slippage but are easier to Chain Out steel rails are Pigs on Ice, slide everywhere. Studs will on tracks do OK on ice but the purpose of tracks as opposed to tires is Low Ground Pressure(LGP) so as snow packs you lose tractive effort to the spread of rail working off of.

Farm tractor with a blower and tire chains can not be beat. Even chains or snow tires on the back hoe should work just fine.

Problem with most 3 pt. blowers is you have go backwards and also need a slow enough reverse gear.

KSSS..... As I can't seem to find a private message utility on the HE forum, I thought that I'd go this route. When I asked about the possibility of bolting an engine-driven snowblower to the inside of the loader bucket on our CAT 420D, you posted back stating that it would be a real "PINTA." Were you saying that trying to mount an engine-driven snowblower in such a way would be a pain in the rear end or did you intend that for someone else? I'm not asking to be a tough guy. To the contrary, I'm asking because I really want to know why this idea seems unrealistic to you. I'm an old vet -- and all that that entails -- but I'm always more than wiling to learn. Thanks for your time.