Buying older dump

DMiller said:

I really do not get the exposed lift cylinder no cab guard beds. Asking for problems.

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DM I've wondered that myself. No cab guard and exposed cylinder works for some but it wouldn't work for me. Like this new truck for sale in TX. The rear lift axle would seem to hang the truck up, probably runs on the pavement all day.

Can see that plastic DEF tank sitting on the ground when getting loaded at some point!!

Other then that funny tag axle that's pretty much how they are rigged here, except the DEF tank is tight to the fuel tank. IMO I see no reason for a cab guard, I won't ever swing over the cab when loading. But with some operators I could see the benefit if it was your own truck getting hired out.

It's all about saved weight with cab guards and cylinder covers

Trucks like the one cm is showing with the tag axel is to make better turning radius having the drives moved up big down side is you have to have the tag down to dump or they lean big time also on that bed there is so much room between the bed and cab you dont need a dog house for the ram cause space is abundant saves weight of dog house and creates less corners for material to stick and they make the truck that length for bridge

3406 e series have never let me down same with the bs I have seen 2 bs die one was an oil pump with 1.1 on it the other driver crammed her into gear down shifting freshly rebuilt motor hit at least 25 on the tach before it threw a rod

I was never a dd guy just not much exposure there are a lot of guys that die by there 60 series

M 11 I have never had complaints against not a powerhouse but they stand up well

Food for thought back in the day with 300 hp motors guys ran 5 and a 4 or 5 and a 3 trans its convenient to have multiple gear options with smaller power most purposes built dump trucks have 8ll in them to save weight and low rear end ratios

A lot of 10 wheelers were road tractors repurposed into a dump so you will find a variety of trans

AzIron said:

It's all about saved weight with cab guards and cylinder covers

Trucks like the one cm is showing with the tag axel is to make better turning radius having the drives moved up big down side is you have to have the tag down to dump or they lean big time also on that bed there is so much room between the bed and cab you dont need a dog house for the ram cause space is abundant saves weight of dog house and creates less corners for material to stick and they make the truck that length for bridge

3406 e series have never let me down same with the bs I have seen 2 bs die one was an oil pump with 1.1 on it the other driver crammed her into gear down shifting freshly rebuilt motor hit at least 25 on the tach before it threw a rod

I was never a dd guy just not much exposure there are a lot of guys that die by there 60 series

M 11 I have never had complaints against not a powerhouse but they stand up well

Food for thought back in the day with 300 hp motors guys ran 5 and a 4 or 5 and a 3 trans its convenient to have multiple gear options with smaller power most purposes built dump trucks have 8ll in them to save weight and low rear end ratios

A lot of 10 wheelers were road tractors repurposed into a dump so you will find a variety of trans

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My concern with the trans was if it came like that from the factory, or if someone swapped something and it's a potential headache. Also scared of getting too small of motor and overworking it as I gross over 90,000lbs and I would like to be able to run with like 6-7 yards of sand in the box when pulling my hoe and gross around 105000 if I need to.

Weight of the truck doesn't concern me much, purchase price, maintenance cost and reliability is all I care about. For the amount I run it, fuel mileage isn't really a concern even.

Man you guys can haul weight we can't dream of down here

AzIron said:

Man you guys can haul weight we can't dream of down here

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Trailer axles are allowed 53,000, truck depending on spec is about 51500-54000.

suladas said:

My concern with the trans was if it came like that from the factory, or if someone swapped something and it's a potential headache. Also scared of getting too small of motor and overworking it as I gross over 90,000lbs and I would like to be able to run with like 6-7 yards of sand in the box when pulling my hoe and gross around 105000 if I need to.

Weight of the truck doesn't concern me much, purchase price, maintenance cost and reliability is all I care about. For the amount I run it, fuel mileage isn't really a concern even.

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Ok... this is really starting to drag out and get tiresome. OP go find a truck YOU are happy with. Your requirements keep bouncing all over the place, you seem to be suspicious of every used truck you see, worrying about whether the trans is not original or worrying about "killing an older engine" or "drilling holes in an older frame".
You can beat this dead horse all you want, but go buy something.
My recommendation is a 14L engine, at least a 13 spd trans, and a walking beam suspension with 40,000 pound rears minimum. Hope this helps.
One of my customers is running a 75 KW with a 15 yard box with a 400 Cummins, a 13 spd, and a lift axle drilled into his old frame. That truck runs every day pulling a pup at 80,000 lbs. I think it has a little over 1.8 million miles on it.

Can agree RZ, time to bite that bullet, Pick One and charge. Walking beams, minimum 40K rears, preferably 48s, 13 or Deep Reduction 15, and at least 350hp large Cubic engine, 14L(855) or better. Six bolt pintle on rear and air set up for trailer already installed, Me as to tires/wheels, no six spoke Dayton's, Budd's on 22.5 rims. Forward mount air lift tag(s) and a 16-18 yard box. Having a lip at the gate to send dumped material AWAY from the back though not a necessity is nice. Cab is open to users choice, all are good/bad/hard or easy enough to find generic parts to fix the OE that may be non-existent. Curved glass more expensive flat glass gets more stone bruises another coin toss. Pick one you are comfortable getting in and out of.

Having a dump truck full of material and hauling a skid steer is one thing. Even 6 or 7 yards could be over 20,000lbs. If you want to use an older truck under 20K, I think you either haul the hoe or you haul material but not at the same time. You want something reliable but at the same time want to push it to the max. Doesn't sound like a good plan for reliability to me.

Thanks guys. It's just even in those specs I can't find one truck that meets them all. Even searching prices up to $50k, as I figured if it's a good enough truck I will pony up to $40k just to make sure I can get something good.

Going to take a look at two tomorrow or monday, same seller. One is a 2000 sterling c12 13 speed 46 rears 260k miles asking $20,500 not sure of hours, other is a 2005 sterling c13 18 speed 46 rears 160k miles asking $27500. Pretty similar trucks both have live hydraulics and are plow specs, both plumbed for pup. I'm thinking the 2000 is a much better choice obviously pending the shape as if i'm not mistaken the 2005 is the ACERT with twin turbos and had some issues?

Did some digging on the truck, they bought it at RB last year. It was rigged up for a plow, but oddly had a fifth wheel. Considering all they did was put a box on it, everything else was done I think it's good negotiating to know they only paid $9k, figure $2500 for a used box maybe the same to put it on. Was certainly hoping it was the higher HP version of the engine, think with a 13 speed it would have enough? I can live with hauling only empty when i'm pulling the hoe.

https://www.rbauction.com/2000-ster...Id=10646633&id=ar&auction=edmonton-ab-2018223

Is best to do homework

HP doesn't determine what you can pull, it determines how fast you can pull it.

In my teens I pulled a 2-yard michigan loader behind an f-700 with a 300-6 gas engine every few days.

When I got a little older I graduated to moving D8s with a 237hp Mack.

Old Thermodynes could cough out HP from 1900 to a grand on the dyno at Mack in St Louis Not much curve just hard power only 230 but steady as a rock
Maxidynes pretty similar

Old 290 Cummins same Dyno would start at 275 around 1850 peak drop slightly to
260 at 1680-1700 and drop like a rock below 1650-1550
DD 8v71 maxxed at 2100 redline at 2300 only pulled HP to 1800 delivered 270 on 318 rate
When Mack said 237 HP they meant AT the wheels!!

BTW Econodynes SUCKED! Had to add gears to get them to work well.

Can still remember that Old Man's B series, had a Maxidyne in it(Transplant), odd pull cable on the dash with a 1" flat Washer on edge for a pull. Was getting readout from running valves new nozzles and a little intake repairs for that previous mod, BTW Straight Stack Exhaust NO Muffler just a rain rattle. On the Dyno SAME Dyno, was pulling HP of 270+/- at 1800, curious George got the better of me, and I pulled a little, not much resistance, pulled a LITTLE Harder and ROAR!! Dyno gauge went over 350 WELL OVER, foreskin was walking the lot JUST HAPPENED to see it go off, came a running. Said Fireball out the Stack was really impressive, then we heard the crackling and he had me get the truck the F outa there. Takes time but I got it out so the STL FD could get in.
Old man had a Custom Shop Stinger on the rack or governor, SOMETHING, Some rather inconspicuous pump work where COULD go a little MORE fuel than allowable. I set fire to the Dyno exhaust hood where some thirty plus years of oil and carbon had built up really well. That took almost an hour to recover from. He explained was a little hard pulling assist he and another guy had figured out, truck left the shop NO WARRANTY.

Do your homework and research to reach whatever sense of peace of mind you seem to be looking for. Considering the OP for this thread and the truck you were looking at and the 210 on a trailer it seems that I would be more concerned with the trailer and the truck hitch. I have hooked a 3406B and 13 speed with Eaton 2 spds to a lowboy and a D8H with a ripper and a full U grossing 123,500 more times than I can remember. I did eventually swap the 13 for a 18.

It seems that you are looking for someone to say "it will be perfect buy this one"... You are buying a used truck. Nobody is going to sign off on that, you need to sign off on that. Your last post re: the Sterlings... someone will correct me if I am wrong, it seems that it takes about 70 HP to turn the fan when it comes on. we have a IHC single axle that has live hydraulics that is the largest toad we own. I suggested to the head wrench that hot wrenching the pump drive was a viable field repair I could perform, as opposed to going 15 mph uphill listening to the live pump doing nothing except dragging the available hp down into the toilet.

In baseball, if the pitcher does not throw the ball the game will not advance. You seem to have a fair idea of what you want/need. Time to move out of the batters box to the plate.
Perhaps you can not reach a decision, on which used pearl of the realm to invest in. The prospect of it's possible unforeseen failure/financial loss due to downtime and repair is a barrier that you are not comfortable with. There is a alternative, the new Peterbilt, Kenworth, Mack and International stores have them lined up. Trucks not besmirched by former owners and protected by warranty. Many of us have done this. Have the big monthly stroke but no downtime to ensure that our gear works everytime, everyday. (in a perfect world with good drivers) Some of us like to buy used trucks purpose built for the task by others that aren't completely used up for 1/2 the money and throw the dice a bit. Some others of us will settle on a used highway tractor with a 4 dollar box thrown at it with Reyco suspension and frame full of light weight highway components that were originally purchased to haul 45000 pounds of cabbage up and down the interstate and won't be able to understand why their newly minted "dirt" truck is broke constantly.

When you are comfortable with your choice, dive in. Were all out hear paddling around together.

bam1968 said:

gwhammy, Are you saying you haul your 973 on a tag trailer behind a dump truck? I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure if I tried that around here that the DOT would have me pulled over immediately. In your post you didn't actually say this but since this is a dump truck thread i was assuming that's what you were saying.

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Hmmm Been there done that on a 35 ton Fruhauf

I'm not so sure about the sterlings, major components should be fine but cab and in cab parts are already becoming a problem from what I hear. If you can be patient, look for an older well cared for rig that isn't a repurposed over the road tractor. Even if you need to put a few dollars into something after the purchase, at least you'll know what you've got, and something with less electronics is probably better in the end anyway....