F350/Backhoe Trailer Fatality

They can all spec or say or show what they want on or in an add for these trucks, someone sees it and says "I have a truck like that, so I can tow a fullsize backhoe like it does in the commercial I saw on the TV!" All of those commercials have the tiny, tiniest writing at the bottom for about a half a second "when properly equipped". Most of the adds show a gooseneck instead of a pintle hitch, I'm not sure most guys even know the difference. The bottom line is this guy was negligent and made a horrible choice, what the truck can or can not do doesn't matter at this point, he has to live with what he did for the rest of his days.....

Truck Shop said:

http://www.ramtrucks.com/assets/towing_guide/pdf/2016_ram_chassis_cab_3500_10k_towing_specs.pdf

truck shop

Click to expand...

I believe that is for single rear wheel and not duel rear wheels

Canadian_digger said:

I believe that is for single rear wheel and not duel rear wheels

Click to expand...

Also interesting that the gas engines are rated for more than the diesel - weight of the engine being the difference I assume.

Canadian_digger said:

I believe that is for single rear wheel and not duel rear wheels

Click to expand...

Your right, this chart is for duel's

http://www.ramtrucks.com/assets/towing_guide/pdf/2016_ram_3500_towing_charts.pdf

Truck Shop

Any chance the F350 driver was "running the hill"? Was he coming down one hill, trying to carry as much speed as possible through the bottom to help get up the other side?

I have owned two JD 310's, tried towing the first one on a 10 ton tag with electric brakes behind my 3/4 ton truck on a rainy day, had to put it in 4wd to steer around the corners. Did this for a couple miles on a private road, gave up and roaded the backhoe the rest of the way. I've never tried this again, I'll pull the tag empty with the p/u but a p/u truck is just too light to pull the tag fully loaded.

If you have never seen a JD710 it is one giant backhoe. I could never figure out why anyone needing a hoe that big wouldn't get an excavator.

norite said:

If you have never seen a JD710 it is one giant backhoe. I could never figure out why anyone needing a hoe that big wouldn't get an excavator.

Click to expand...

My dad and I ran a 780C Case for 15 yrs, after that we got a 446B Cat. For what we were doing at the time, they were perfect. Agree that an excavator is definitely the way to go, but there are places and businesses where the backhoe is much more versatile.

norite said:

Any chance the F350 driver was "running the hill"? Was he coming down one hill, trying to carry as much speed as possible through the bottom to help get up the other side?

Click to expand...

No way to run this hill. The bridge at the bottom makes a complete U-turn but the road is solid curves all the way down and up.

http://caltopo.com/map.html#ll=39.28858,-121.10086&z=15&b=ter

Accident site just north of the 49 in the lower center of the picture, northbound, downhill, before the sharp curve to the right and then left.

Shimmy1 said:

It's not so much the electrics fault, it's more so the fact that there is probably more brake surface area on one wheel with air brakes than the whole axle with electric.

Click to expand...

Well that's a true fact! also when electrics heat up it seems the magnets heat up and loose some grip as well sort of a false brake fade. Indeed I'd bet we've all done stuff without having a problem. Used to drag triple hay wagons behind a JD 6300 and its only got single axle brakes! Couple years back I had my trailer brakes get hot when a bit of a detour aimed me down another road I wasn't familiar with. That road had a 1.5 mile 15-20% grade. It was at this time I learned a couple things, electric brakes suck when hot and that ceramic pads when overheated pretty much go away as to relative braking force. I've had semi-metallic pads gripping a red hot rotor with plenty of grip still but it seems the ceramics just give up, I could only slow down to about 30mph on this grade. My backhoe and trailer only weigh about 16000 total. Thankfully there was a 2 mile flat at the bottom I drove at 25mph to cool everything off but yes, that sucked. I changed rotors and pads after that trip. In europe, it seems any trailer over 10k needs air brakes so they have all the doodads to let the hydraulic brakes drive a trailer air system.

Electric brakes do really suck for all the reasons previously mentioned plus this one---almost impossible to find replacement assemblies/parts not ''HECHO IN CHINA''. That right there alone is scary. In my old age [62], seems I drive my 10 ton electric braked trailer behind my 7500 Chevy slower every year---and for damn good reason. Gonna replace ASAP with air.

I'm sure you folks knew it wouldn't take long for some outfit to market bigger brakes for diesel pickups. The real problem is people trying to
skirt the permits, cdl's, pee tests and state and federal requirements using a diesel pickup to get around it. Sorry but that is the truth, I've
had people tell me that is the reason they do it. Plus they don't want the expense of owning a class 8 truck. I wonder how long the wheel
bearings will last with this conversion and 22.5 wheels and tires.

http://www.hardworkingtrucks.com/dually-big-bite-brakes/

Truck Shop

Couldn't access the link, but I had a conversion on my '97 dually 4X4 can't remember the size exactly but they were big RV tires, had steel adapter plates and Budd lugs. Never had the slightest issue on the rear but the front cartridges let go at around 200K. Really didn't feel too bad about that. I had the Michelins bandag retreaded for the rear, they wore like iron, fronts were good for 70-80K as long as you kept it more or less aligned when you put new ones on. The gear sets had been swapped to 4.10's.

I've got a local concrete contractor who is a customer of mine. He uses his (plastic chromed-out) 2006 F-350 crew cab, 4x4 dually to haul a FORD 555D backhoe with a 10-ton trailer. He does all of that with a production OEM receiver hitch. He is honestly a f-ing stupid drunk. I told him to at least upgrade to a (somewhat) massive class # 5 receiver hitch, but he has YET to listen to anything I have ever said to him. He's the kind of guy who got hurt while he was self-employed, then sued himself (by suiting his own workman's compensation policy) to the tune of $80,000. Then, he went out & bought this bull-$hit 6.0L power-stroke f-350. He has yet to do much of anything right. He can tear it (concrete) out & put it back, but I have no faith in him for $hit else.

Now, I told all of you guys that because this is the very sort of guy who would be most likely to accidentally kill someone based on vanity-based decisions. I wish a DOT officer would pull his ass over & conduct a proper DOT inspection. He would most likely have a huge fine to pay that I feel certain he can not afford to pay. How do guts get away with this day after day?? Why are they not held responsible?? Because they say that they did not know any better?? In my world that is considered negligence, at the very least.

Truck Shop said:

I'm sure you folks knew it wouldn't take long for some outfit to market bigger brakes for diesel pickups. The real problem is people trying to
skirt the permits, cdl's, pee tests and state and federal requirements using a diesel pickup to get around it. Sorry but that is the truth, I've
had people tell me that is the reason they do it. Plus they don't want the expense of owning a class 8 truck. I wonder how long the wheel
bearings will last with this conversion and 22.5 wheels and tires.

http://www.hardworkingtrucks.com/dually-big-bite-brakes/

Truck Shop

Click to expand...

Yes there is some intentional and unintentional skirtage going on that's for sure. Those 'big brakes' what a marketing scam! Stainless rotors don't grip worth a damn and you can't just whip a 3 piston caliper onto a balanced system unless it has the same area as the oem one. The major difference there, the Hawk pads have an incredible bite. As to bigger brakes, comparing rotors between my 350 and 550, the 550 rotors are more than 1 inch bigger and half again thicker and they'll drop right on. In cab chassis config the max gvw is just under 18,000 and in motorhome config its 22,000 with front brakes going from 14.5 to 15.5. So yes, more stoppage in motor home brakes, at least on the pointy end.

I would actually like to take my truck trailer down to the RMV and get a class A combination license, but I'd rather get the full air brake ticket but don't want to spend 5k on a school for doing what I already do. Just to drive the F550 I need a medical card, same for the F350 as its over 10k hell I think the F250 now takes you into the 10,000 pound class. A 5 ton tagalong trailer on the 550 puts it into the class A category if it breaks the 10,000 pound category, same as a 9ton or any decent gooseneck trailer towed by the F350 as most are 10 ton ish. I've overloaded the 550 with firewood unintentionally a few times and the brakes are wonderful even with 7.5 ton on the bed.

The mention of a class V towing hitch, there's one mfg of towing accessories out there that took a full size pickup lashed between a huge Ag tractor and a dozer and they pulled! The class 3 hitch failed at the cross tube to side plate welds at around 20,000 pounds, I was a little surprised at the low number, 2:1 safety factor seems small once you add in rust and such over time.

This is why I always take it slow, use the jake, ration my brake power, and make sure my f****** brakes are ALWAYS checked, and triple checked before I pull out.

I guess this about wraps up this case:

https://www.theunion.com/news/nevada-county-manslaughter-case-ends-with-sentencings/

Not much for another mans life.

Nope, sure not, not for being that negligent. They ought to at least have to support his wife and child.

I have read over this thread and I am sorry for the man and family that has the loss of life. I also feel sorrow for the guys that were sentenced in the accident. The driver was unexperienced in problems with hauling and he is one that got taught the hard way.

Pulling weight and driving around heavy equipment is a dangerous business. Drivers that do not do it, don't realize how much so. They tend to ride to close, cut off my safe stopping distance space, and pull out in front of me. The dot should make every driver sit in a dump truck simulator that moves and can show what it is like to loose your brakes. fiIt is a nerve racking experience pulling in Atlanta traffic. I have almost "wrecked" several times. We also move wide loads typically up to 12' wide around the city. Many people don't yield or help. We adjust our schedule to go a the lightest traffic time of the day in order to have an easier pull.

A few things I have learnt the hard way.

* Use the lowest deck trailer you can to keep the load low.
* Hit your trailer brake controller to test your brakes while moving each time you jump on the road. Even if they work, a lot of them do not self tighten and you must adjust the brakes to make sure they keep grabbing as time goes on. Over time they just work less and less and then you have no trailer brakes at all.
* Buy the best tires you can afford, that have the highest load capacity for your wheel size.
* Take a breath, carry a one gallon jug of water for drinking. SLOW down. Yes you just got cut off but once you get used to allowing it to happen it wont bother you as much. Which leads me to the next one.
* Try to maintain safe stopping distance even if cut off..
*If the load is heavy in the rear, stop and move it forward if possible.

I use 5 different deck over the wheels trailers. They are more dangerous to pull and easier to roll than any low deck equipment trailer. I was just thinking the other day I would like to upgrade my two axle bobcat trailer to a low pro 3 axle trailer. I managed to wreck myself even with years of pulling experience. Improper tongue weight got me. Once you experience that you will not want to try it a second time... Lucky for me I was using a low pro trailer and the load stayed on and the truck and trailer did not leave the roadway in a bad area and no one was around me.

A lot of guys haul just the same way these guys did. I see it almost every time I get on the interstate and think to my self let me stay the heck away from that guy with too much weight, which is too high up, with too small a tow truck or even those with the camper that is three times bigger than the towing vehicle. Hell just watch a tire blow out on a semi and you will learn to stay away from the sides of a big truck while in motion...

Throw in a little bad luck (**** poor planning) and one little problem (in there case it seems it was the profile and grade of the roadway, but there are so many others that can happen. Wet roads, ice, blown tires, vehicle failure ) and another unlucky driver and there you go - another bad news story.

That seems like a slap on the wrist for a man's life and how many laws were broke to be in that situation

Seems to me a driver in a real truck with cdls trying to be legal would get in more trouble for less negligence