Cat 544J trans question

Greetings Experts.....first post as a member and I have a question. Maybe one of you has seen this before and can give me some guidance. Have a 544J in the shop, and the transmission (ZF, I believe) is exhibiting some odd behavior. Everything starts and runs well, but by far the majority of the time, when putting the FNR (Forward/Neutral/Reverse) lever in either forward or reverse, I get no engagement. The rare times it does engage, it will move only a few feet and seem to slip back into neutral. The display on the instrument panel properly reflects the selected position. All fluids and filters are fresh. Temps all normal. Other hydraulic operations (boom, bucket, swivel) normal. Gear selector on lever correlates with display.

At this point, I do not have a schematic to trace the circuit from the shift lever all the way to the (I suppose) clutch. Or wherever it leads.

Any pointers or tests that I can run I would appreciate very much!

tcw

Title says "Cat", yet 544J is a Deere.

Delayed engagement? Have you changed spin on filter? Cleaned screen in sump? Running Hygard? Any codes related to drivetrain in ECM?
Fluid and filters fresh...was this done before or after symptoms started?

So sorry....yes indeed, JD. Working on a Cat also, guess my mind was split.

No delay when it does decide to engage. When it doesn't....no sound, no movement of anything I can tell. It disengages after maybe max 10 seconds even not moving when it does engage. Acts just like it was shifting back to neutral. Engages I'd say one attempt out of 50 or more. Engine rpm has no effect.

Spin on changed. Screen has been cleaned. Not sure about Hygard. Will check tomorrow. No applicable codes, but I'm not completely familiar with this drivetrain. I'll grab what is there and post tomorrow. There are several. Dealer suggested new ECM, but I'm not convinced. This ECM is a rebuild from March '17. F&F new since failure.

Another odd clue, perhaps. Not sure exactly why I did this, but I was raising the boom and the transmission seemed to stay engaged and I could move the machine as long as the boom was lifting. Out of travel, transmission disengages. Something tells me this is pressure related. Also, and this doesn't sound like an intelligent thing to do, but after it slips back into neutral, if I "whip" the steering wheel back and forth slightly (also messing with hydraulic pressure) it acts like it wants to engage, causing a jerking motion, and will inch along. It doesn't sound healthy, as the attempts at engagement are rather harsh, so I didn't do it but a couple of times to confirm the action/reaction. This discovery was quite accidental, I assure you. And a bit startling.

One last thing for tonight (this morn). Sometimes, but not every time, the instrument panel flashes the orange/yellow "Trans Error" (wording may not be exact. I'm mostly asleep) I'll have more details by noon CST.

Thank you for your response!

tcw

Welcome to HEF Tony! Need a serial number. Also scroll to codes in the monitor and report on any active/stored codes.

Thanks mg. Which sn you want? The ECM sn is blank, as it is a reman, and I know there are several on the chassis. I'll get what I believe to be the main machine number.

Will post all codes a little later....have to have my coffee dose before heading out.

tcw

Note to the Moderators (I assume there are some). Could you please correct the title for me? It should read "John Deere 544J Trans Question" or "JD 544J Trans Question". Many thanks if you can make me look and feel less like an idiot.

Well, this is going to take a bit. There were more stored codes than I thought. Full up 20, in fact. Please bear with me as I get them entered. First though, the "Product Identification Number" which I assume is the SN:

DW544JZ603764

Codes (Active)
1)
Brake Pressure
Low
FLC 117.1

2)
12V Cntr Tap
Open or Short
FLC 444.5

3)
Fan Speed Sol
Circuit Fault
FLC 1071.31

4)
Battery Voltage
Imbalance
FLC 444.18

Codes (Stored)
1) Same as #2 above
2) Same as #4 above
3) Same as #1 above
4)
F Washer Pump
Open Circuit
FLC 522797.5

5)
CAN Comm
Lost for TCU
FLC 2003.9

6)
Current Gear
Not Valid
ECU 523.9

7)
Clutch KS Sol
Short to Gnd
TCU 522392.4

8)
Clutch K3 Sol
Open Circuit
TCU 522392.5

9)
CAN Comm
Lost For SSM
FLC 2140.9

10)
Trans Oil Filter
Restricted
TCU 522375.0

11)
CAN Comm
Lost for TCU
CMU 2003.9

12)
1rst FNR
Mult Inputs
TCU 522411.12

13)
Fan Speed Sol
Circuit Fault
FLC 1071.31

14)
Trans Speed
Sensor Fault
TCU 522401.2

15)
Clutch K3
Slippage
TCU 522392.2

16)
? Unknown Code
ECU 100.18

17)
CAN Comm
Lost for SSM
CMU 2140.9

18)
R Wiper Lo-Speed
Open Circuit
FLC 522433.5

19)
Clutch K3 Sol
Short to Power
TCU 522392.3

I lied.....guess there were only 19 stored. I do have page 2 for each of these codes if needed. And I found out that someone (knew I should have pocketed the key) had been in cab and was really yanking on the FNR lever rapidly and rather roughly trying to make it work. Some of these codes may be the result of that. I'm positive there were not that many when I left the machine earlier yesterday. As I mentioned, none that seemed connected with the driveline....but now I see several that would indeed seem related to the trans and clutch.

At this point I have the FNR lever on the bench and I am giving it a good cleaning (the boot was not properly strapped around the switch housing, allowing a lot of dirt in) and deoxidizing the switch. It does seem somewhat intermittent. Won't hurt to clean and lube it. Mechanically it seems fine, just dirty. There were two of the wires with small spots where the insulation had been compromised, but they were down in the loom and not close to each other or anything they could short to. They will be repaired with solder and shrink tubing.

From this write up, the machine looks to be in rough shape, but I don't believe it. I spoke with two of the operators and there have been no problems other than the A/C prior to the drive issue. It does seem to be in good shape overall.

OK....that's enough to chew on for now, I'm sure. Oh, and yes, Hygard (equivalent from NAPA) was used. Sorry about all this, and I'm grateful for any help I can get.

tcw

Press and hold the menu button until service menu pops up. Then you will get the option to clear the codes. Clear them. Then try to drive the machine and see what comes back.

Only use Hygard oil in that transmission, not NAPA oil.

Acknowledged. I am told the low brake pressure warning light has been flashing for some time, prior to this drive problem. So I'm sure it will be back. Could this be related to the root cause of what I am seeing? I don't like having warning lights ignored by operators. They shouldn't get used to paying no heed to the dash panel.

I'll get the switch back together and go to the shop in the morning to reinstall it, and clear the codes as you said and see what comes back up.

Well, seems to be some progress. First on the switch. Internally there are 3 momentary contact switches. They are actuated by camlike features in the die cast zinc handle/stem itself. Depending on position, some combination is actuated. These were gummed up and full of dirt, so I'm thinking they did not consistently make/break as designed. A good cleaning with electronics cleaner and compressed air freed them up mechanically. A few small squirts of Caig Deoxit D5 (cleaner/deoxidizer/lube) seemed to resolve anything but possibly just plain wear. I don't know how many hours is on the machine. Also patched a couple of bald spots on some wires leading from the switch assembly. So it is still suspect in my opinion. I'll probably replace it, if I can find one.

On to the codes. After clearing the codes, before attempting to move the machine, leaving it in neutral, there were 4 active. The same codes (#1-#4) as were set before as active. I expected that. Everything else seemed normal. So, patting myself on the back just a little (I know the risk), I drove it forward and reverse about 20-25 feet in the building I am working in. All systems same, no new codes. So, gaining some confidence, I took it out into the yard. Seemed to drive normally, both in auto and in manual modes. I have about 40 acres to run around in. So far, so good. Then cruising along in 2nd, it slipped back into a disengaged position. Display showed still in Forward, but back in 1rst gear as it coasted to a stop. Stopping the engine and restarting seems to
"reset" things so it will engage in either F or R and run for a while. Now, instead of just a few feet, I may get 100 yds+ before it fails.

Now there is an additional code:

Clutch K3 Sol
Short to Gnd
TCU 522392.4

page 2
Wire T06 BLU, P78 RED
Conn-Pin X23-55, -12
X23-13
Section: SE23

That code does seem to be drive related. But is it that it is a response from the ECU to disengage the clutch and ignore subsequent commands from the FNR switch or is it something else? And is this really indicative of an actual shorted wire or internal short in the Clutch Solenoid? We have an ongoing argument between ourselves that it is indeed more directly related to the solenoid/wiring than simply a false signal/error in the ECU/ECM. First off the dealer condemned the ECU/ECM.....that's where I started having doubts.

I do now have a service manual, so hopefully the wire and or connection is not buried too deeply to investigate. I haven't mentioned this before, but I am semi retired and physically unable to do much of the grunt work of crawling around under/over these machines any more, but I have some "helpers" who try to take care of that part.

So, what's the next move, Chief?

tcw

I think you are on to it. A short in the K3 would cause a shift to nuetral I believe
Since you have the wiring schematic , you could figure out which pins go the K3 solonoid and check for continuity to ground and to each other. If it checks out to ground unplug the harness at the transmission control valve and see if it changes . Still continent to ground it is in the harness,. If not, it is likely the K3 solonoid shorted or the internal control valve harness.

Any issue with the solenoids can cause the TCU to kick the trans into neutral. Like partsandservice says I think you are on the right track.

Thanks guys. Yes, the service manual has the diagnostic procedures for testing K3 Short to Gnd. Simple enough if I can physically locate the wiring junctures. I repair/restore antique radios and stuff as a hobby so have piles of equipment for testing, but this will just take an ohm meter. I have an electronic copy of the manual, and I wish it hot linked from the diagnostics to the schematic/wiring locator but it doesn't....but that only will cause me to take a little more time to find the connectors, and specifically K3. But Monday that's what I'll be doing.

Since I did all that cleanup on the shifter switches, what are your feelings on leaving it alone vs replacing it? In my experience with other equipment (and here I must admit heavy equip is not really my thing professionally, I am a career machinist but work on and fix just about anything from watches up and have done quite a bit of equipment repair), switches that get full of grit and show wear and act like this one did before I cleaned it have shortened life. You guys seen any history of the lifespan of the shifter mechanism?

Much appreciation guys,
tcw

This all fine and dandy, but the electronic copy I have (.pdf) when enlarged enough, is completely illegible in SE23 so it's no help at all identifying the proper connectors and wires. I'm on a 31" hi-res monitor even. Don't get me wrong, it appears to be a complete manual, about 1,300 pages.....but if I can't read the pages it's not a lot of help, especially the ones containing details like I need for this. And K3.....that's the solenoid itself, correct? At this point all I have (I think) is wire colors to identify it. I could see how this could be frustrating.

Can you guys give me the general idea of where I will find what I'm looking for? It's one thing to read that it's connector X23 and pins 12 and 13....but locating it is quite another.

I appreciate the hand-holding...
tcw

To answer your first question about the FNR....I would recommend replacing it with the new Hall Effect shifter. The old style like yours have been very problematic. If you decide to replace it there is a jumper harness required as well, as well as two screws for attaching that are a different length. The parts dept should be able to print you the instructions since they are attached to the part number's notes.
X23 is the transmission controller connector. Pins 12 and 13 (both P78 Red) are the voltage for the transmission solenoids and pin 55 (T06 Blue) is the control (ground) wire for the K3 solenoid. X36 connector is the connector at the transmission control valve. T06 Blue for K3 should be pin #4 in that connector and P78 red should be pin #7.

OK, thanks mg, that will help.
Awoke with a question this morning though. When the machine faults out and goes to neutral, I can shut it down, immediately restart it and everything goes back to normal. Now in my electrical experience, that makes it sound like an intermittent short (if that is indeed what it turns out to be). That's possibly going to be tough to nail down with the machine just sitting. I know I can do the "jiggle test" on the cable bundle and it might show up, provided it's in the harness. But what are the odds of having an intermittent in the K3 solenoid itself, and is there any way to "force" it to show up during testing?

Interesting that there is a Hall effect replacement. Much superior I'm sure. I don't care for the way the original is built. If (hypothetically) one of the 3 switches in the FNR were to stick closed, could that be the short I'm chasing? It doesn't seem like it, since that ought to occur as soon as the shifter was moved, but if one of the switches was supposed to be NO while moving and then moved to an NC position, could that be a short? I'm thinking that's not the case, just thinking "out loud" here. Not planning on spending much time chasing that line of thought.

Just out of curiosity I looked at a price for that FNR switch. Pricey, retail anyway, for no more than it is. I'll get a quote on the Hall effect replacement tomorrow.

Many thanks, once again!

tcw

Intermittent usually points to a wiring/connection issue (90% of the time), but not always. A solenoid that is starting to short out may work when cold and then create an issue when hot like the park brake solenoid on a ZF trans on a backhoe I had a few weeks ago (see scope trace below). You could check the ohms through the solenoid to see if it is within spec also (17-21 ohms). If lower then the solenoid could be the issue.
I have not seen FNR's cause shorted solenoid codes.

One day I'll break down and buy a DSO. Hard to justify when I have 3 scopes on the bench and don't do that much field work where a scope is needed. Maybe I'll requisition one for this shop. (and then keep it on my truck)

Point well taken. Best I can do is take some resistance measurements both cold and hot I suppose. Would agree that hot could cause insulation breakdown and show a short or at least reduced resistance.

Thanks for the post!

tcw

Now I'm not trying to be a smart aleck or be lazy, but since this is presumably (at this point) a short in the harness involving T06 Blu, or P78 Red, and is intermittent, would it make sense to just snip it at the connectors and run a new wire parallel to the harness? Protected and all properly, of course. I'm just trying to minimize the time spent on the ground under the machine. I have a pretty bad back and am supposed to just be the brains for this repair, but I'd really rather fix it myself. When I splice, I solder and use jelly filled shrink tubing, but my helpers aren't that meticulous and if pressed will cry about it and do a poor job. But I hesitate to say..."Let's just replace the suspect harness." I am struggling with the idea of a short with the connector itself on either end. Open, a different story, but a short doesn't seem too likely. I'll check it, sure...but to me odds are against that being the location of a short.

I guess I'm trying to cover everything I can think of before I go in the morning to get on it. The building I'm in (and glad to have the shelter) has no power, water, or anything. I carry an inverter for my trouble light and can run my laptop no problem. If I need more power, I can drag a genset near enough to use without making too much racket. The internet WIFi at the office won't quite reach out to the building, so if I need to consult it on anything I have to stop and relocate closer, or use one of the office buildings if I need to print something. At least they are air conditioned. It's getting pretty hot and humid lately so that can be a welcome break.

Sure, you can do that. Just check the ohms on the solenoid first. If OK run separate wires (start with the T06 blue first) to see if the problem goes away.