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Working the National 1300A

Natman

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I had a big steel beam to set across a canal, and where it was sitting and then where it had to go, was too far for my mid span or retracted outriggers load chart to work. So, I offset the first time, picking the beam and setting it directly behind me, then offset to the opposite side, so I could get full outrigger span each time I was picking in that direction. Duh, obvious, I guess!
 

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Natman

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I have a 2500 pound lap pool to set in the backyard of a 100 year old house. Short by 15' or more with the National 30 ton, and a Manitex 40 ton also was shy. 106' from the hook to the city street curb, for the big units and their need to set up further away.. I was going to drive onto the lawn, but still too far at 90'. We ended up getting a 110 ton Grove 9000, and he was figuring about 125' from center of rotation as he was NOT going on the lawn of course. He needed all, maybe most, of his counterweight, so a separate semi for that plus the driver. It got expensive quick, but the pool owner was motivated. The big day came, I was there with my rigging and spreader bar, the tub crew, we had the city street blocked off, and everyone on the block settled in to watch the show.

2 hours later, we bagged it, the Grove had an issue with it's PTO engagement, and we were dead in the water. Then, to make it worse, when I was in the middle of a truss job almost an hour's drive away, they called me and said they had it fixed, but it was too late for me to get back in time so the tub still sits on the trailer, and I am scrambling to find another big rig but they are ALL tied up in my area. Everyone was disappointed, and no one made any money, but what are you going to do, stuff happens. I'll post a picture later. What a Chinese fire drill!
 

Natman

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Seen over the snake River Canyon (about 3/4 mile from Evel Kenievel's ramp, still there from his aborted jump), looks like real tight quarters!
 

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Natman

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Setting a 2500 lb. lap pool 127' away, over a 110 year old house. I subbed out this job to a big time crane outfit, and they ended up using this Grove all terrain machine, after having PTO issues with another crane a week earlier. I got to run it a bit, what a machine! So maneuverable, the way he parallel parked at the curb using it's trick all wheel steering and maybe crab steering was impressive, for me, it was like getting a walk through of a big airliner, everything familiar to this small plane pilot, just on a enormous scale. I was told, with the counterweight they used, they were at 50% capacity, though i found it interesting they still "cheated" as much as possible, using the sidewalk as opposed to the street for their outriggers. Closer is always better no matter the size I guess.
 

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crane operator

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What's this mess back by the counterweight, on the back of the upper house, on the tms 9000? I'm thinking back up camera mount, or a proximity switch mount for sensing how much counterweight is installed. Looks like the guy with the tms9000 was going to do it all from the street, unless he's still backing over toward the curb. The AT guy is like me, I'm not giving up any radius if I don't have to.

And just because I'm curious, did they road both of them with all the counterweight hanging and/ or some on the deck? i.e. no support trucks with the weights?

tms9000_LI.jpg
 

Knepptune

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Nov 22, 2012
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Almost all the gmk’s have that bracket on the back or one similar. There’s no switch or Camara on it as far as I know. The base weight has a little hook that slides up into the bracket if you don’t have full weights on. You can see the same idea on that 115t. It’s on the side more then the back tho. I’ve wondered if it’s the keep the weights from swinging to much of your not fully weighted up.

I’m thinking the guy in the tms just didn’t want to three leg it onto the sidewalk if he didn’t have to. I don’t blame him. The AT could just level his suspension and run his O/R’s straight out.
 

Natman

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They needed a semi to haul the counter weights, and I understand they could not make the pick with what counter weight they could run down the road with.

When the AT pulled in right by the curb, I immediately noted to myself that his outriggers would hang up before he could get them extended, this shows what I know about a crane like that one! He of course, used his suspension to make it a non issue, that right there is one handy feature, and one I could often use on my boom truck, dream on. That thing had more bells and whistles just in the driving cab then I could fathom, and appeared to be low time/newish. The sidewalk remained as it was, already cracked under one pad but no worse, and still uncracked on the other. This pick. including 1.5 hour drive time each way, cost $2200.00. If I could have done it with the National, I would have charged my minimum, $350/$400.00, but there was just no other way to get that tub back there, and I believe the tub/lap pool was part of a health related insurance thing, for rehabilitation purposes on an injured knee in a car wreck that was not the homeowners fault, in other words the driver at fault's insurance may be picking the tab up. Whatever, we are all paid up, and that is what it cost.
 

Natman

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I learned something about how the hydraulic fluid flows in my rig. I learned the hard way though.... I had to take the front stabilizer off, including it's supply lines, in order to get the front bumper off. The bumper was tweaked and the plan was to use a rear stabilizer to apply pressure to carefully straighten it out. Once I got it positioned on wood blocks, just right so that I could go past straight a bit and when it sprung back it'd be just right, I started it up and engaged the PTO. The only thing was the rear stab controls were not working, hmmmm. Then it hit me, I had ASSUMED that no fluid would escape out the disconnected lines up front, wrongly it appears, though I did take care not to use the front control. Now I know, and after the cleanup, it seems I only lost maybe a gallon of fluid. The thing that got me though was that my shop was just back to normal after a job on that Jacobsen mower you see on the left, which required spilling both diesel and hydraulic fluid apparently, and everything was all cleaned up for about 3 days before this happened. Dried grass clippings and some gravel with a lot of dirt in it I had nearby cleaned up the concrete floor surprisingly well, everything else, about every hand tool I own, took a bit longer.

The bumper ended up being beat back into shape with a sledge hammer, and it actually looks pretty good.IMG_20190702_153812551_HDR.jpg
 

Natman

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My guess, and it's only a guess, is that the fluid is not constantly circulating thru those hoses I had disconnected, that seems like a lot of busy work, and inefficient as that would also take power away from the functions actually be worked. I would guess that the fluid flow would be static, until I command via the outrigger control for that jack, then things would start to flow for sure. But, and this just occurred to me, it has an "auto up " feature, when I raise ANY of the 4 side jacks, the front comes up, saving me from trying to drive off with it still down, a great feature. So, that's the answer right there, that front is somehow interconnected with the other 4, and though I didn't get full flow I got some kind of semi pressure. I don't really care how it works, I'll just assume any hose is "live", and have it capped off or reconnected, lesson learned. Pretty obvious, NOW.
 

Knepptune

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Nov 22, 2012
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Almost all outrigger systems work off of return pressure. Meaning everything is pressurized and only one return opens. Yours May be different but I bet it’s not.

At least it wasn’t a terex crane. Those have air pressure in the hyd tank. You crack a line and it’ll spray hyd oil till the air pressure bleeds off. Matter fact enough air pressure to send a plug 40’ across the shop. And spray fluid dang near that far. Not that I know from experience.
 

Natman

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Well that makes me feel a bit better, Knepptune!

Within 5 days, I set some 85' light poles at the local county high school, ( tricky, as the way I was rigged, the last 6' down was by sucking the boom in and cabling up and booming down, whatever it took to keep the boom tip OUT of the lights and stay centered over the concrete tapered base) then removed several tons of gravel off the federal court house roof with a debris box (which required going through a security screen similar to the airport, just to use the bathroom across the hall), set a back up generator at the new city water pump station, and then the county Road and Bridge crew replaced the culvert on the gravel road right before my home, (I just watched and stay out of their way) me being the prime recipient of the new culvert, especially as my hydro electric intake is right below it. This work all helped when I had to pay my property taxes right in the middle of all this, the county and Fed money more then made up for that, the new culvert and the city workIMG_20190628_104840832_HDR.jpg IMG_20190628_090951815_HDR.jpg was a bonus.
 

crane operator

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We usually run the rigging all the way to the bottom of the poles, how did they get up there to get your rigging off? Bucket truck or man lift? That's one of those jobs where a remote releasing hook would be nice, hit the button and drop the rigging, grab a basket and take them up to get the rigging.

I like setting poles with my rt. I don't disturb the ground as much (often I'm on the field or track), and its a little bit big, but it makes it easier to horse the poles around telescoping and such.
 

Natman

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Rigged just slightly above the vert CG, a smaller man lift (maxxed out though) got a guy up high enough to unrig me. Those big light assemblies are all pre aimed, and nudging one even if it didn't break would not be good!
 

Natman

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GOING TO A DIVE BAR (35 YEARS AGO...) PAYS OFF
I knew the old Greek guy who owned the bar right on the corner from this HVAC job I had today. If not for knowing him, and at one point getting a tour of the entire 100 year old building the bar was (and is, now run by his son) on the ground floor, I would have assumed the sidewalk was adequate support for my outriggers. But, I had been in the basement, where regular patrons were not allowed ( I was doing some construction work there as I recall) and remembered how the basement extended out underneath the sidewalk! So, this AM, though i have not been in the joint for 35 years at least, this all came back, and sure enough a tap with a hammer made a hollow soundIMG_20190717_105933463~2.jpg , and I then operated on the assumption it was not a "regular" sidewalk. Luckily my mid span load chart showed I could safely do the job.
 

Tradesman

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GOING TO A DIVE BAR (35 YEARS AGO...) PAYS OFF
I knew the old Greek guy who owned the bar right on the corner from this HVAC job I had today. If not for knowing him, and at one point getting a tour of the entire 100 year old building the bar was (and is, now run by his son) on the ground floor, I would have assumed the sidewalk was adequate support for my outriggers. But, I had been in the basement, where regular patrons were not allowed ( I was doing some construction work there as I recall) and remembered how the basement extended out underneath the sidewalk! So, this AM, though i have not been in the joint for 35 years at least, this all came back, and sure enough a tap with a hammer made a hollow soundView attachment 199368 , and I then operated on the assumption it was not a "regular" sidewalk. Luckily my mid span load chart showed I could safely do the job.
Good catch
 

Natman

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A good customer ( one who pays, and promptly) called me concerned about my access to this job site, a 50 min. drive, but a 15 minute flight (at 85 mph, in a straight line) and it looked OK to me. I sent him this pic while overhead, modern communications, gotta love it. My home strip makes this real convenient and no hassle at all. Next, I have a grain mill job to look at about 25 miles away. I do this FOR NO EXTRA CHARGE! IMG_20190718_062658716~2.jpg Ha ha.
 
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