Where do you draw a line on forum member responcibility?

heymccall said:

Somebody (not sure if on a forum or not) said to flush his engine with water.

https://mustangforums.com/forum/5-0l-general-discussion/368307-i-m-done-with-this-car.html

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At the risk of being called terminally insane one time I did remove the valve cover from a Chevy six in an old pickup only used around the quarry at work to replace a very leaky gasket. When I pulled the valve cover the build up of sludge was so bad you could hardly see the valve springs. But the old engine did run!

At that time we had a hot water pressure washer set up a couple hundred feet from the shop so I drove the truck down to the washer and proceeded to flush all the crap off the top of the head. Hard to believe but after a spray with some WD-40 type oil on the cap and wires it started up and ran back to the shop.

Drained the oil and installed a new filter and installed valve cover with new gasket. Believe we ran it a short time with fresh oil and then did another oil and filter change. That old engine kept working till something else killed the truck!

Nige said:

If you go back and read through the famous D6C thread it got kinda personal between two members from different sides of the Pond and was nothing to do with the OP other than he was the one who wouldn't take advice from Tony and others who were all saying the same thing. One member then called out TCT because of perceived safety concerns over the way he works (guess what, things are often done differently in other countries) and it all got pretty heated.

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I must confess I don't think I ever read that whole thread because it went so incredibly long.

And the way I read I think I sometimes fail to register offense in people's writing, so maybe I missed that or skipped over it.

It is too bad, I did enjoy his posts.

John Canfield said:

I am staff on two forums, one is a Jeep forum and one is a very large RV forum. We do not tolerate any kind attitude from member to member, criticize ideas and not people. Once it gets to flaming we lock the thread, this is the difference between a well moderated forum and one with little oversight.

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100 % agree with you there John.

The ones that I have had the most problems with have always been brand specific, and I should know better.
You don't ask a guy the just spent $100K what he thinks of his latest purchase. Of course it is the best.

I joined the brand specific form to learn about that brand, I had thoughts that I might like one, so who better to ask then the owners. These were older used units so I wanted to know as much as I could

My thinking was I want information, I don't have anything to trade other than a bit of knowledge that I gathered up from years as a mechanic. So thinking that if I were to be an active participating member and try to help out where I could, then I would be rewarded in kind.

So feel free to ask about what is so good about brand X and why should I buy it over brand Z. The flood gates open and its like trying to drink from a fire hose.

Ask what is bad and it is just like you farted in church. The overwhelming silence is deafening.

And then it started. Little questions about how would I know for sure if I never worked on one before.

And then I did the fatal error of calling out one of the moderators on an issue. I was right and proved him wrong which apparently was a bad thing.

So then came the big blow up.
Was explaining to a guy who had a Silver 6V92 for power,that there can be an intercooler under the blower and with age and such, they can get plugged up and it can cause power issues and smoke.

Well, this guy comes at me. " I was in the USMC for 20 years, I worked on detroits and I never, EVER saw a aftercooler. You are nuts"

No idea what the Marines had to do with it, you guys would have to fill me in. The 20 years of working on detroits I understood. But they can have intercoolers, as anyone who has had to remove them to clean will know. I don't know if they all have or not, but whatever.

So this guy was being a complete tool towards me. I asked the Mod if he was going to allow it and basically got told that he saw nothing wrong. The other guy was an owner and had been on the group for years.

Okay then!!!

Lord did they need some help too.
They were all running off and getting the new improved D2 governors because they were set to 130 PSI and it made their brakes so much better???
One old guy wanted to know how to shut off that annoying buzzer and light on his dash because it was bothering his wife, ah, that is your low pressure air alarm.

Yeah, and I was the idiot.
Said goodbye to that group.

HEF is well run.

Every once in a long while, there is a thread that goes sideways.
It might take the Mods a bit of time to get on to it, hey they are not omnipresent, but they will control it.

So I'll just quickly sum up my thoughts on this thread.

Welcome to HEF. We are a great online community with a common love of heavy equipment.

• We have people from around the world with all levels of knowledge
• We do expect you to have a bit of common sense and mechanical aptitude
• We are not responsible for anything that happens due to advice given, it is still up to you to decide how you want to use the knowledge that we will give you.
• You are responsible for your own safety
• When you ask for help, be prepared to provide the required back ground information, it may be something as simple as a serial number or it could be quite complicated.
• When you receive your answer, review it and if you have any questions ask them. Be advised that this is an online forum. While we have some extremely talented people there will also be some advice that is given that might be wrong.
• Don't keep asking the same question over and over and over.
• Be polite and be ready to have some fun, we are a fun bunch.

I know there is more, and it can be phrased better but it is what it is.
I think I have babbled on enough for one day. Can you tell it was raining today?

wornout wrench said:

He had the oil drained out and had refilled it with, are you ready for it, varsol.

Flashed it up and let it run for a min or two.

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I have heard of people using diesel (old #2) to do a quick flush at no load without issues.

wornout wrench; One thing I am always quick to do when given sage advice is to show appreciation to those who have been willing to think deep, take time, and share their knowledge and experience with me and don't have to. Many times the older wrenches that knew the outdated machines I keep running are long retired or on the wrong side of the grass.

kshansen said:

At the risk of being called terminally insane one time I did remove the valve cover from a Chevy six in an old pickup only used around the quarry at work to replace a very leaky gasket. When I pulled the valve cover the build up of sludge was so bad you could hardly see the valve springs. But the old engine did run!

At that time we had a hot water pressure washer set up a couple hundred feet from the shop so I drove the truck down to the washer and proceeded to flush all the crap off the top of the head. Hard to believe but after a spray with some WD-40 type oil on the cap and wires it started up and ran back to the shop.

Drained the oil and installed a new filter and installed valve cover with new gasket. Believe we ran it a short time with fresh oil and then did another oil and filter change. That old engine kept working till something else killed the truck!

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Chevy 235 or 250 in line 6 in the pickup ?

Tough engines.

I always figured that it was part of my job to help train up the younger guys.

I learned it from the old guys, now I are one of the old guys.

Circle of life LOL

tough motors is right: I have a 54 GMC 1ton dump straight 6 can't remember the CI but it's an industrial... So decided I needed to use it one day it had been sitting outside for quite a while so I popped the hood hooked up the jumpers and stepped on the starter... fired right up so it's sitting there running for a few minutes and I notice there seems to be a lot of moisture coming from the breather??? that's weird??? hmmm, so I pull the dipstick and it starts spraying water all over the place!!! Oh shoot!!!! got it shut off and checked the oil like I should have in the first place.... nothing but water on the stick sucker was completely full of water!!! at first I thought maybe someone filled it up on purpose... but later discovered that the cap on the valve cover was bad and sits directly beneath the hood/cowling seam which filled it like a funnel anyways long story short I drained all the water out put new oil in and ran it a few minutes then changed it again ran fine after that... dumb luck I didn't hurt it

Note to self: always check the oil!!!

There's a large truck forum I've been on for a few years. Been debating about pulling the plug on it a lot lately.

HEF is the only other online forum that I participate in and I like it a lot better. It is much better organized and there are a ton of great and knowledgable folks on here. Most all of the screen names I see in this particular thread I consider to be pretty dang knowledgable. I've gotten some good advice from a lot of them, either directly or just from me browsing random threads.

Do the members think there is any relationship between the fact that recreational/hobby vehicles (e.g. RV, Jeep, bicycles) are by definition for recreational use and bought & operated/maintained out of the owner's disposable income, and where heavy equipment on the other hand is generally used in one of two scenarios: -
1. As a money-maker/profit generator for a machine owner or for a company.
2. As a money-saver for a private individual or organization by enabling him/them to do work that would otherwise require hiring in a contractor or equipment to carry out a particular task.

Either of the above yellow iron scenarios will focus the mind wonderfully if a machine is down and needs to be got back up again, an IMHO make the owner more open to receiving advice & suggestions from others with experience in the same field.

Also FWIW - Wornout Wrench's explanation of what HEF is (starting from "Welcome to HEF" - I'm not going to quote it all) should be WRIT LARGE right at the top of the main page of the forum IMHO.

I used to post on a few 'Other Sites' where when Mansplained to me I would drop the conversation and let the Loser run with what he had usually to his own demise. Have a Harley, 2012 RGU, it has a good self learn capability in the ECM where was told by a local Tech he could flash it for a upgrade but by the time I would get home with it would have educated itself to better specs against sensor inputs. Tried to relay that in a HD site, got shot down by the Motor heads INTENT on keeping the engine system in a Open Loop configuration trying to snitch more power. Explained the actions of Closed Loop Optimized control, got turds thrown back so sat back and ignored awhile. Next up the whining and blaming Motor Co for burnt valves, cooked cylinders, high fuel consumption and TADA Bad power curves. Cannot teach those that will NOT listen or educate.

As I have stated often times over the years - "I have my own opinion. Don't confuse me with the facts."

DMiller said:

Have a Harley, 2012 RGU, it has a good self learn capability in the ECM where was told by a local Tech he could flash it for a upgrade but by the time I would get home with it would have educated itself to better specs against sensor inputs. Tried to relay that in a HD site, got shot down by the Motor heads INTENT on keeping the engine system in a Open Loop configuration trying to snitch more power. Explained the actions of Closed Loop Optimized control, got turds thrown back so sat back and ignored awhile. Next up the whining and blaming Motor Co for burnt valves, cooked cylinders, high fuel consumption and TADA Bad power curves. Cannot teach those that will NOT listen or educate.

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I think I recognize that forum.... I haven’t kept up with what HD’s been doing, but they must have substantially improved the adaptability of their engine management controls since the first closed loop ones hit in ‘07. The last new bike I had was an ‘06 w/out O2 sensors, so it was open loop regardless. The complete tune on my current bike, a ‘79 FXS, included tweaking the pilot jet a bit when I took off the 2” drags the PO installed and put on a 2:1.

td25c said:

Chevy 235 or 250 in line 6 in the pickup ?

Tough engines.

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Would have been a 250 in line six that and the old Ford 300 six have to be two of the best engines for taking abuse ever built!
Company had many of the F-150's with the 300 Six and can't recall one engine that ever was the cause of a truck being junked!

Recall the truck driven by company computer guy, he brought it in with the oil pressure light on. Norm, my partner in crime in the shop, checked the oil and it showed on the stick. Then hooked up a mechanical gauge and sure enough almost no pressure.

Figured the pump was bad dropped the oil pan to find the suction screen to be coated with tar like substance. Norm asked him the last time the oil was changed only to get the "I'm not sure shrug!" Believe Norm just cleaned the pump and screen in the parts washer and cleaned the pan and spun on a new filter and it was good as new!

My '12 is quite a good runner, decatted the Head pipe swapped to a more open Air Cleaner and left the rest stock, mileage initially (Up to 10K) was around 40mpg, that is now closer to 46 average. Rode to CO to see brother, never a ping or knock even on KS Corn gas as could still feel the loss of power on it, back on CO gas and all was great again even at altitude. Averaged 50mpg above 4500ft mark. Over 25K on it now, sweet bike to ride and LOST the Cat heat that cooked my right Butt Cheek.

DMiller said:

My '12 is quite a good runner, decatted the Head pipe swapped to a more open Air Cleaner and left the rest stock, mileage initially (Up to 10K) was around 40mpg, that is now closer to 46 average. Rode to CO to see brother, never a ping or knock even on KS Corn gas as could still feel the loss of power on it, back on CO gas and all was great again even at altitude. Averaged 50mpg above 4500ft mark. Over 25K on it now, sweet bike to ride and LOST the Cat heat that cooked my right Butt Cheek.

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I dumped a lot of $$ into the ‘06. 95”, TW37 cams, ported heads, air cleaner and pipes. Had it dyno’d by Doc in Leesburg, FL and then rode it 41K miles. I typically got about 38 mpg out of it, but i was younger then.

Mine is Factory 103, bud has a 2008 Anniv Ed RK with a 96 factory and cannot match performance on mine either. Some has to do with Fairing over W/S as well. On first ride long distance went thru CO on the two, his would eventually struggle at altitude, was like mine never left MO. Newer Brain with O2 and other sensors hard to beat.

It really doesn’t matter what the forum is about, it’s people - they are the same regardless of hobby, recreation or making money. Good moderation keeps conversions polite and eventually the members understand the boundaries. The entire point of forums like this are all about people helping people.

Nige said:

Do the members think there is any relationship between the fact that recreational/hobby vehicles (e.g. RV, Jeep, bicycles) are by definition for recreational use and bought & operated/maintained out of the owner's disposable income, and where heavy equipment on the other hand is generally used in one of two scenarios: -
1. As a money-maker/profit generator for a machine owner or for a company.
2. As a money-saver for a private individual or organization by enabling him/them to do work that would otherwise require hiring in a contractor or equipment to carry out a particular task.

Either of the above yellow iron scenarios will focus the mind wonderfully if a machine is down and needs to be got back up again, an IMHO make the owner more open to receiving advice & suggestions from others with experience in the same field.

Also FWIW - Wornout Wrench's explanation of what HEF is (starting from "Welcome to HEF" - I'm not going to quote it all) should be WRIT LARGE right at the top of the main page of the forum IMHO.

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fwiw i don`t think twice about dumping the oil from an engine that has not been run for some time, pouring a quart or so of the drain out back in it fill it to the full mark with diesel and let it idle for 20-30 minutes. never had any thing go wrong

John Canfield said:

It really doesn’t matter what the forum is about, it’s people - they are the same regardless of hobby, recreation or making money. Good moderation keeps conversions polite and eventually the members understand the boundaries. The entire point of forums like this are all about people helping people.

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I agree with you that the whole point is helping people, however ......... look at ww's experience on the RV forum. He's thinking about buying a used model "X" so joins the dedicated forum find out more about them. Ask what's good, the answer is everything. Ask what's bad, the answer is "like you farted in church". That is not the mindset of folks with equipment, everyone knows that whatever they run has good points and bad points and are more than willing to swap war stories about them.
Effectively it's the blind versus the seeing ........ I am still of the opinion that the different usage of something recreational versus something that has to work for a living is at the bottom of it, or at least is one of the reasons. Think of it as professionals versus amateurs if you like, which is why maintenance professionals generally sooner or later come into conflict on forums that are full of enthusiastic amateurs....

Nige said:

I agree with you that the whole point is helping people, however ......... look at ww's experience on the RV forum. He's thinking about buying a used model "X" so joins the dedicated forum find out more about them. Ask what's good, the answer is everything. Ask what's bad, the answer is "like you farted in church".

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I'm on another forum devoted to the old XS650 Yamahas. That has to be one of the best forums around. The people there don't have any problems talking about weak points of the various versions of the bike and they have workarounds for just about every one.

What I think may be the problem with a forum like ww's RV forum is too many of the ones there just dumped a tone or two of money on their new toy and just don't want to admit it is not perfect. Where someone owning a 40 year old XS650 they found in a barn has no trouble admitting it needs help. And some of those 40+ year Yamahas now look and run better than when they left the factory. Same can be said for some of the old yellow machines guys on this site have!

Can't help but think what one of those RV's will look like in 40 years!